Ever "ruined" a student??

[amy]

Hi everyone....
(just a general question).....  but i'm wondering if anyone here (perhaps in their earlier teaching experiences) ever spoiled a student so much or had "let them be in control" TOO much that you couldn't go back?      No matter what material (new or old) you bring up, they refuse to take things seriously and work hard?  They now no longer stay excited about anything for more than 5 minutes?  They STILL want to play the piano, but they just don't seem to have enough discipline or right-motivation?......
~~ how do you "re-invent" yourself (as a teacher), and how do you make material fresh again....and how do you get over a technical hurdle in their learning (when it's time to go back and work on past-struggles?

But back to my main point......what have you (teachrs) done to GO BACK and make the wrong RIGHT again??? (this pertains to more younger children [ages 4-8]....

let me know, please.
thank you!!  

-amy

[ahmedito]

I had to repair a mistake I made with an adult student of mine. He studied with a horrible pseudo-teacher and when he started classes with me, he really thought he had the level for more advanced pieces, but he had absolutely no ear and his technique was a horrible mess. You wouldnt believe how bad he was playing. I gave him a bit too much credit, and instead of being an authority figure, I let him play the repertoire he thought he could play. Three months later Im seeing absolutely NO results, and he's actually getting worse, he wont listen at all. So, my wife was (an excellent childrens violin teacher) was mad at me. She really let me have it. Basically she was mad because a teacher was not honest with her and did the same thing to her. As a teacher you must be brutally honest, thats what you get paid for. Honest with yourself and with your students. I started him on little preludes and fugues, a long ways back from what he was playing. I got in a huge fight with him, he said I was just trying to stop him from advancing and that if I thought he should be playing all that "easy" repertoire, then I should have given it to him in the first place. I was just brutaly honest. Told him I thought he could do it, but he clearly had his technique way too messed up. (If I had just said that the first class, and trusted my own authority I could have avoided the whole mess). A couple of months on the Bach and Czerny really got him back on track. Although I doubt he'll ever play well, he is just too messed up.... anyways, this happened about a year after I started teaching. Most of my students were hand downs from very bad teachers, and instead of trusting my own judgmente I had bad lapses as the one above. The next year was all about fixing that mistake. I haven't done it again, and I get better results now.

[breadboy]

I had to repair a mistake I made with an adult student of mine. He studied with a horrible pseudo-teacher and when he started classes with me, he really thought he had the level for more advanced pieces, but he had absolutely no ear and his technique was a horrible mess. You wouldnt believe how bad he was playing. I gave him a bit too much credit, and instead of being an authority figure, I let him play the repertoire he thought he could play. Three months later Im seeing absolutely NO results, and he's actually getting worse, he wont listen at all. So, my wife was (an excellent childrens violin teacher) was mad at me. She really let me have it. Basically she was mad because a teacher was not honest with her and did the same thing to her. As a teacher you must be brutally honest, thats what you get paid for. Honest with yourself and with your students. I started him on little preludes and fugues, a long ways back from what he was playing. I got in a huge fight with him, he said I was just trying to stop him from advancing and that if I thought he should be playing all that "easy" repertoire, then I should have given it to him in the first place. I was just brutaly honest. Told him I thought he could do it, but he clearly had his technique way too messed up. (If I had just said that the first class, and trusted my own authority I could have avoided the whole mess). A couple of months on the Bach and Czerny really got him back on track. Although I doubt he'll ever play well, he is just too messed up.... anyways, this happened about a year after I started teaching. Most of my students were hand downs from very bad teachers, and instead of trusting my own judgmente I had bad lapses as the one above. The next year was all about fixing that mistake. I haven't done it again, and I get better results now.

wow... just wondering, but what does this guy and others like him do (or not do) that he shouldn't be doing?

God bless

[amy]

thanks admedito...

hmm..... you doubt he can play well now??  (isn't that putting him down and doubting him? Although you're just being brutally honest right?)    Yes, you're right.  Honestly is key when you're the teacher.....  do you have any advice for how i can spill out honesty to a 6 year old???  (apart from telling their parents....what can i exactly say or do.. to let them know the truth?)

thanks!
amy

[Egghead]

thanks admedito...

hmm..... you doubt he can play well now??  (isn't that putting him down and doubting him? Although you're just being brutally honest right?)    Yes, you're right.  Honestly is key when you're the teacher.....  do you have any advice for how i can spill out honesty to a 6 year old???  (apart from telling their parents....what can i exactly say or do.. to let them know the truth?)

thanks!
amy

Er - honesty about WHAT exactly?

I believe in honesty. I do not believe in brutality.

From a students perspective (yeah, that's me, I am intruding into your section again ): yes, I want to know what to DO next, work on pieces that are manageable in an acceptable length of time, and improve my piano playing. I would also want to know if progress is held back by a lack of skills or whatever that I can improve on OUTSIDE piano lessons.

In other words, I want to know everything that is relevant to progress and that I have some influence upon.

So kidding yourself or the student (or the parents) on these topics is indeed very annoying (Ahmedito's case), because it wastes time. Well, you Ahmedito, realised after a while. Mistakes happen. What do you mean by " he is still too messed up", though? Have you given him up? How about getting him another teacher then?

My view on the six year-old is: a kid that young is not interested in processes that take six years, or whether they are the next Richter or not. I hope the parents aren't (primarily) either. So motivation will have to come out of enjoyment. Does the six-year old enjoy the music? If not, why, and could you change that? If there is enjoyment, there will be curiosity, if there is curiosity, there is eagerness to learn.

On re-inventing yourself - I am not sure this is necessary, as the kid will be changing so fast at that age. A kid is likely to experience the "now that you are older we trust you are able to do this and that" all the time. Why not tell the kid (with a new piece, or even an old one): "I think you have now reached the stage, where we can go about this in a more advanced way...". Make it a challenge. Make it something the kid can be proud of.

And please, please: use REAL music. Play some Mozart, Schumann, Bach, Beethoven. The kid will be DYING to copy you.

Apologies, if I have misunderstood your problem. You might be better off reading the "how to teach young children" threads.
Egghead

[ahmedito]

I stopped teaching him because I left the city. When I say bruttally honest, I mean with yourself especially, and with your studen only if tits necesary to tell him.

That student was my worst ever. 35 years old, playing since 14 with a terribly bad teacher. Extreme tension, cant coordinate, cant read music well (tons of rythim problems, no sound whatsoever) never practices at all, very slow learner. Just a bad student. Hes been passed around from teacher to teacher like 5 or 6 times, cause he is just hopeless... I wanted to teach him, but after some months I moved from this city.

[Swan]

 do you have any advice for how i can spill out honesty to a 6 year old???  (apart from telling their parents....what can i exactly say or do.. to let them know the truth?)

The truth about what Amy?  What is your 6 year old doing or not doing that you have to be truthful about?

[Daevren]

Look back to the first post.

About young children and teaching, people have to teach themselves, this includes children. You can only help them teach themselves. If they refuse to teach themselves you can't do much.

Well it can be done if you break the kid mentally and you hit him with a stick on the fingers when he doesn't listen. But that is probably illegal in most countries, and so it should be.

So you have to kindle their interest, instruct them, give advice etc.

[amy]

hi..
thanks for all the replies and suggestions...

when i asked how i could spill out honesty to the parent or young student... i meant it in regards to their progress...perhaps how they're not doing too well and should restrain from their bad habits or lack of practice.....   I mean... you can tell your student to practice more and all that stuff, but they generally WON'T.  I dont know if it's a combination of things: saying the right words, using a more strict tone....etc)  

I did try giving out like a marked-performance where each piece he had to work on, i'd grade it out of 5 or something: setting outlines for him on dynamics, or counting, or tempo etc....  He did very well under pressure.. he practiced during the week.. and when he scored a somewhat low score, he felt disappointed at himself and wanted to do better.. but i cant keep giving him quizzes each week.... and after a few, he wont take them seriously......

so.... i just seemed to have run out of ways to keep him going.....(but he still likes to have piano lessons and likes to play some pieces)  but it's frustrating to move him on when he doesnt want to practice the way he's supposed to..... etc.

thanks
amy