Jumps in the left hand, specifically in Chopin's nocturnes.

[larapool]

I'm practicing Chopin's Op. 9 No. 2.  Absolutely gorgeous piece - the one problem is I don't have too much experience with the 'oom-pah-pah' left hand jumps.  For example, throughout all of this piece, each 'oom' is a very low bass note, and the 'pah-pah' parts are higher chords.

Any advice for playing these smoothly?  I've realized I can't pay attention to both hands at the keyboard when the left hand is jumping everywhere like this.  I've never been good at jumps like these because I always manage to hit the wrong bass note when I go back.  Should I focus on the left hand more than the right, so even if I do mess up the melody, I can continue with the rhythm and get back on track?

Thanks for any input.

[glyde]

Hello,

I learned this piece earlier this year and had some problems with the same jumps initially. Practicing the left hand on its own until it was smooth really helped.

Also, I would say stick with the suggested fingering particularly the left hand fingering (also the right hand octave fingering later on using 1,4 and 1,5 as suggested). It's almost consistent the whole way through for the left, using 5 - 5,2 - 4,2,1. I found that once I got over the slight awkward feeling I had at first the left hand became very balanced and smooth because of the consistent fingers. My brain shifted somewhere along the way and I started seeing it as a single base note and a split chord.

I'd also say to really look at the whole movement of your left fingers, hand and arm together. When I practiced it with left only and slow enough so that I could think ahead, it eventually became a nice sweeping, smooth motion. I think getting a smooth motion is particularly important with  jumps like this - you want to avoid hesitation and 'looking for' the right note. If you're learning a whole movement instead of just the notes, it sinks in quicker and sticks.

This was my experience anyway, and how I tackled the piece. I hope its some help to you.

All the best and good luck, Andrew

[mcrosbie]

For what it's worth, I have always felt that Chopin's music was a among the most challenging piano music I have played.

[larapool]

@glyde - Thank you so much!

@mcrosbie - I agree.  It's extraordinarily challenging.

[cjp_piano]

I've never been good at jumps like these because I always manage to hit the wrong bass note when I go back.  Should I focus on the left hand more than the right, so even if I do mess up the melody, I can continue with the rhythm and get back on track?

Yes, this would be a good way to practice, but also just take your LH alone. I suggest practicing it in a few different ways:

1. Don't worry about the speed or timing, just confidently find the low note, then the high note (or chord), back and forth. When I say "confidently find" I mean arrive BEFORE you play it. Hesitate on purpose:

Play, move quickly, then WAIT
Play, move quickly, then WAIT

You can't possibly miss the notes if you wait after you find it. Gradually, you lessen the WAIT time until you're not really waiting anymore, or at least not noticeably, but your hand will find it accurately.

2. Practice ONE direction of the jump quickly, but then relax. For example, if it's oom pah pah oom pah pah, etc., practice just all the "oom pahs" really fast. After you do that, practice all the "pah ooms" where you're jumping back down, really fast.

3. Play just the LH, but faster than performance tempo. Make sure you're looking at the keyboard for the place your LH is GOING to be, not the current one. So while you're playing the bass note, you look at the chord you're going to move to. Then when you play the chord(s), be looking at the next low note. Practice small sections and don't worry or stop if you miss a note, just keep doing it, your brain knows where it's supposed to go, so your body will adjust. Just like learning how to ride a bike, you pretty much HAVE to fall down so your body learns the correct way. =)

Once you do lots of these types of things with just the LH, add the RH back in.

Good luck!

[kellyc]

Hi: Cjp has some great advice. Follow his plan . It will work wonders. Another Idea , though it usually comes later on in your development is to learn not to look at all at your left hand. In fact close your eyes and begin to feel the jumps without your eyes getting in the way.  As strange as it sounds your eyes can be a real problem, especially once the left hand movements get quicker in more advanced repertoire. Ragtime music is a wonderful teacher of this.  After all Nobuyuki Tsujii is blind and he received  a Gold medal in the Van cliburn Competition.

Best of luck with your Jumps 

Kelly

[cjp_piano]

Another Idea , though it usually comes later on in your development is to learn not to look at all at your left hand. In fact close your eyes and begin to feel the jumps without your eyes getting in the way.

This is very good advice as well. It allows your body to feel the jumps and gauge the distances. I remember playing the Chopin Bb minor Scherzo and the end has to jump from both hands in the middle of the piano out to the extremes to hit the final chord. My teacher had me do it with eyes closed! But by the time it came to recital time, I was so confident!

[_achilles_]

My teacher had a tip that I felt worked really good for this specific nocturne, and music with bass notes like that in general. She told me to split up the bass notes and the chords just to see the progression. So for example, in this one just using your left pinky play the low Eb, higher Eb, low Eb,  low D, C (this is off memory). Later in the song when there is more variation in the bass notes, this really makes it clear where you hand should jump too since you're mind is used to the progression.
Then, do the same for the chords that get played.. when you just play the chords you'll get a better grasp of where they start and how they progress.

This is just for when you're learning the notes and chords.. so if you've already got the it down this may not be much help. But I found it to make learning the song incredibly easy (relatively).

[larapool]

Thank you, everyone, for all the advice.  I'm still practicing it, and have more or less memorized the entire thing, and the jumps are extremely easy now.  I guess it just took some hard practice

The only thing I need to work on now is playing the odd amount of notes in the right hand against the steady left hand rhythm.  For example, the four E flats in the right hand, or the 11 Fs and E flats in the final section.  I also feel that when the right hand is playing a lot of sixteenth notes (usually at the end of each phrase) that I slow the left hand down too much, so I need to work on that.  I've gathered that a play time of just over 4 minutes sounds reasonable, so I need to work on these, smooth out my pedaling and make sure I don't go too loud until the final section.

I also need to work on the part in which both hands play 8th notes with no pedal - I cannot seem to make the last group of three eighth notes transition between each other smoothly without pedal, no matter how slowly I play.  I think tapping the pedal very carefully works in fixing this but I don't want to use any at all 

[1piano4joe]

I have no problems with the jumps in Chopins's Op. 9 No. 2 Nocturne in Eb.  Probably because I studied Joplins's Maple Leaf Rag which I personally just love which has huge jumps in the left hand. I found adding an additional octave (or even 2 octaves) to the jump to be the one of the most effective techniques I have ever found. This technique is called over practicing. To read more about this check out Piano practice for Dummies which is actually full of all kinds of useful information that I didn't find elsewhere. I've read many books Chang, Sandor, Cooke and lots of posts here as well.

Over practicing in a nutshell is making whatever your trying to do even harder. So if you jump twice as far and turn the metronome to even 1 click faster than half your current tempo your jumping technique (speed anyway) has improved.

Finally, practice take offs and landings. After all we are talking jumps here. What does a track and field long jumper do but take off and landings. Take offs should be with a kick (push off in the direction your moving your hand). In other words don't lift your hand straight up as your coming off the keys.  Practice pressing the keys not straight down but at an angle.  Your eyes should now be looking to where your going to.

Move your hand as fast as you can to the new position, feel the keys (you should have time) and then the landing should be straight down. This feeling of the keys and the waiting should eliminate any wrong notes in the jump.

That's all I know about jumps.

[cjp_piano]

I have no problems with the jumps in Chopins's Op. 9 No. 2 Nocturne in Eb.  Probably because I studied Joplins's Maple Leaf Rag which I personally just love which has huge jumps in the left hand. I found adding an additional octave (or even 2 octaves) to the jump to be the one of the most effective techniques I have ever found. This technique is called over practicing. To read more about this check out Piano practice for Dummies which is actually full of all kinds of useful information that I didn't find elsewhere. I've read many books Chang, Sandor, Cooke and lots of posts here as well.

Over practicing in a nutshell is making whatever your trying to do even harder. So if you jump twice as far and turn the metronome to even 1 click faster than half your current tempo your jumping technique (speed anyway) has improved.

Finally, practice take offs and landings. After all we are talking jumps here. What does a track and field long jumper do but take off and landings. Take offs should be with a kick (push off in the direction your moving your hand). In other words don't lift your hand straight up as your coming off the keys.  Practice pressing the keys not straight down but at an angle.  Your eyes should now be looking to where your going to.

Move your hand as fast as you can to the new position, feel the keys (you should have time) and then the landing should be straight down. This feeling of the keys and the waiting should eliminate any wrong notes in the jump.

That's all I know about jumps.

Very good advice! "That's all I know about jumps" is an understatement