Confused organ / piano student - please help me!

[jonashn]

Hello everybody!

I'm an organ student, planning to audition at the conservatiore in january 2012.

I'm quite confused about technique, and after reading a lot of excellent posts here, i decided to ask, hoping for some help.

I've played the piano for around 7 years - along with violing and singing, which of course in the end made me downprioritize all 3 things a bit. I've never practised scales and exercises in a really controlled fashion - it's always been the last thing i wanted to do - i'd much rather improvise of practise the actual pieces.

A couple of years ago, i started playing the organ, and that made me realize that i missed a lot of technique. It is said that playing the piano prepares you for the organ, but that the opposite isn't necessarily true. I really felt that a needed more technique - i was very confused about how to play pieces, whether to use my arm, wrist, or just my fingers.
Everytime i played pieces with scales arpeggios, it was very hard for me to learn them, and even harder to play them without mistakes. I practised a lot, and in the end i learned all these pieces, but not without a lot of tension.

My organ teacher has just repeadedly asked me to pratise slowly and so on, and i do that a lot, but some times it really seams like an impossible task to get a piece perfect.

The reason i'm asking my questions here in a piano forum is that i realize that i have to get my technique straight on the piano if i wanna have any chance of keaping up with the demands of the conservatoire.

Currently, i (almost) only have tension in my right hand, after putting a lot of effort into loosening up. I tense a bit everytime i play something really fast, especially trills. I try to remove that tension in very slow tempos, but it's hard to get totally rid of.

I could ramble around for many pages about what i've tried, but i know that in the end it's propably just about me getting it together and practising slow, and maybe start really practising scales and arpeggios.

I think my main problem is that i'm an extremely good sight-reader, and sometimes i just don't want to practise something slowly that i almost can play (and certainly read) in tempo.

I'm practising between 2 and 5 hours  a day on the organ, and very little on the piano. I cannot accept having anything physical limit me as a musician, i will never get happy if i'm just barely able to play difficult pieces. I really need to get "past" technique, if you know what i mean.
So, i ask all you clever people: What should i focus on - playing music, exercises, or both, and how do i get rid of tension and end up with a "natural", easy technique?

PS: Some of the things i'm really bad at are quick scales and arpeggios, and everything "pianost"-like - hand movements, wrist movements, using force from other places than the finger to play notes, and so on. Please don't slam me if it seems like i never practise slowly, i do that a LOT - i just feel like i'm beeing braked by the impatience i've had earlier while playing the piano.

-Jonas from Denmark

[m1469]

PS: Some of the things i'm really bad at are quick scales and arpeggios, and everything "pianost"-like - hand movements, wrist movements, using force from other places than the finger to play notes, and so on. Please don't slam me if it seems like i never practise slowly, i do that a LOT - i just feel like i'm beeing braked by the impatience i've had earlier while playing the piano.

I'm not an organ expert, but have formally "studied" it enough to know that the technique is fairly different - especially because you do not have the direct response from the organ in overall "tone quality" that you do with the piano.  So, in terms of arm weight, etc., that will all be different going from the organ to the piano (and vice versa).

Something that I have observed in some organ players who are primarily organ players and then switch to piano (without necessarily "studying" the piano), is that the difference in sheer sound is a kind of shock to the system for them.  It seems there is a tendency to try to get the same kind of all-encompassing (and somewhat static) sound out of the piano that they get out of the organ, and while that's possible to some respect, it's not the default sound (nor primary) purpose of the piano.  All of that, of course, would change a person's technique.  

Also, even though we may become aware of tension in seemingly isolated places, like our hands, I believe the source is ultimately a matter of needing to have a solid relationship with our butts  .  Ok, I mean, a definite awareness of our sit bones on the bench.

Welcome to the forum!

[m1469]

Oh, and one more thing.  What is the point of slow practice, exactly?  Many people say "so that we play all the right notes"  or "so we don't make mistakes."  But, I say that is only a fortunate outcome of it.  What I believe its real purpose is, is to allow us the time and space to consciously organize what we are doing while we are playing, which includes A LOT!  So, within your slow practicing, you must balance your awareness between the aspects involved in the what as well as the how you are playing - which means it's a good time to check in with your awareness regarding tension in the heat of the moment and not just once it's too late.

[jonashn]

You're right about the technique differences. On the piano, your attack must be fast, followed by a total release of tension (i think:) ). On the (mechanical) organ, you can't use too much force when playing the keys, if you do, you can hear "t"-like attack sounds as opposed to "d"-like attack sounds. That puts a limit to the speed of attack you can use. Also, when you hit the "bottom" of the organ key, if there's still some speed in your attack at that point, you'll hear it, and damage the mechanics. In a way it's a bit like comparing a drum to a button -  at least that's how i feel it when i play.

Arm weight, through, comes in when you play difficult pieces, and especially when you play on difficult organs. When you couple the manuals together, you suddenly have to use a lot of weight to play the keys, and you have to keep that weight while holding the key down, which you don't have to do at the piano.

I have taken one lesson from an extremely virtuoso pianist, and he told me that a lot of the really virtuoso organinsts use "weight", and a kind of martellato technique to play difficult pieces on difficult instruments without killing the fingers. I think that i have to go for something like this, i just can't figure out how to implement it - at the moment i play mostly with my fingers.

I know the feeling of suddenly switching back to the piano, and it takes some time getting used to the change. I just have a feeling that i need to get some real proper technique from the piano to master the organ.

I think you're right about the butt-relationship - as an organist, you "balance" the whole time on the bench, to reach both the pedals and the keys, and i'm really having trouble keeping my back straight during a very long practise session.

To your point about slow playing: For me, it's just about the fact that i simply can't play scales, arpeggios and trills without tension, no matter how much i "think" and prepare mentally, without practising them slowly. It is though i have a built in tension from improvising too much on the piano in too fast speed ( i really like to improvise, and when you are doing some amazing broken chords, it's hard to stop even though it hurts because of tension - i don't do that so much on the piano anymore, but i still have the tension).




I'm also pretty slow at learning new pieces - i have spent a couple of weeks on this bach-fuge, and it's still not ready for prime time - it just seams like i keep practising all the fast parts slowly without getting anywhere :/