pain from octaves

[ac12345]

So, I have a concert coming up in less than two weeks.  It's not all that difficult of a piece, but there are a lot of octaves/big chords and it goes on for at least an hour.  I have pain in my hands (mostly right hand) along the side of the hand by the fifth finger (so not the finger itself, but running down the part of the hand right below the finger).  I need to keep practicing.  It only bothers me when I actually try to play (but it is a problem even on light stuff like Mozart).  Also, I have rather small hands (ninths are awkward and tenths are impossible).  This pain all started two days ago.  It's going away, only because I've taken a break from practicing for about 12 hours.  Any advice on how to fix this, how to prevent it next time, the reason this is happening, what to do presently (with the upcoming concert) is greatly appreciated.  (I will not name the music i'm playing as I prefer total anonymity over the internet)

[dahmin]

I'd suggest use your wrists more to strike when playing octaves and chords

[pianoplayjl]

Perhaps try to avoid tension in your forearms and wrists.

[octavius_trillson]

Perhaps try to avoid tension in your forearms and wrists.

I second this. I've had pain along the left side, of my left hand, near the fifth finger but it went away with some relatively slow practice and a good night's sleep. The next day I just relax and try to play with fluid motion and I find the pain doesn't reappear.

If I ever get a more severe pain then I'm used to, I stop practice for a few days until it's gone and I always find when I return to practice I play substantially better.

I've also gotten pain along the outer length of my arms, which I'm certain is lactic acid build-up. I believe this is like exercise at the gym, so with a good diet and enough sleep you'll find that the pain lessens and eventually disappears coupled with a marked increase in your endurance.

I've gotten pains from octaves, fast jumps, left hand trills and rapid double thirds but as I've stated above they always go away after I what I've mentioned, namely, fluid motion (no tension- relax shoulders, mentally allow hands and arms unabated fluid motion), relatively slow practice (not too slow), a good diet (not sure if this helps but I generally eat well and I've heard this recommended for people who exercise), and a positive attitude towards my playing.

I'm an amateur by the way, so you might want to take all this with a grain of salt, though I assure you, all the above works for me.

[nyiregyhazi]

I've also gotten pain along the outer length of my arms, which I'm certain is lactic acid build-up. I believe this is like exercise at the gym, so with a good diet and enough sleep you'll find that the pain lessens and eventually disappears coupled with a marked increase in your endurance.

Not that I want to write off this possibility outright, but I'm really not convinced. Lactic acid build up is easily removed by warming down. I don't believe this kind of pain is removed by light exercise of the 5th finger. Also, lactic acid is produced by anaerobic respiration. I don't think anyone works so hard that they cannot involve enough oxygen to use aerobic respiration. The lungs certainly wouldn't have a problem getting enough oxygen into the blood. We're almost certainly looking at inherent muscle fatigue, rather than lactic acid. Arguably, this is one of the aches that you sometimes have to go through to develop a good fifth finger, although you have to be very careful not to push yourself too hard.

[bleicher]

The difficulty is that you have a concert in less than two weeks which is a somewhat stressful time to be investigating and addressing a problem like that. Over the next two weeks you could try to limit the amount of time practising the octave passages, for example, by spending more time working on memory away from the piano, or by splitting your practice time so that you only spend a few minutes at a time on the octave passages and using the in between times to practise the other sections and to do some stretches.

Once you've done your concert will be a better time to work out what the problem is, whether you need to address your technique (which I'll leave for others to advise on) or whether to work on reducing bodily tension for example through Alexander Technique or yoga or pilates.

[octavius_trillson]

Not that I want to write off this possibility outright, but I'm really not convinced. Lactic acid build up is easily removed by warming down. I don't believe this kind of pain is removed by light exercise of the 5th finger. Also, lactic acid is produced by anaerobic respiration. I don't think anyone works so hard that they cannot involve enough oxygen to use aerobic respiration. The lungs certainly wouldn't have a problem getting enough oxygen into the blood. We're almost certainly looking at inherent muscle fatigue, rather than lactic acid. Arguably, this is one of the aches that you sometimes have to go through to develop a good fifth finger, although you have to be very careful not to push yourself too hard.

I did a quick read on muscle fatigue courtesy of Wikipedia, and I stand corrected, lactic acid is one of many things that happen in the muscles during exercise and is not responsible (or not solely responsible) for pain during exercise. Muscle fatigue is a better description.

[keyboardclass]

Dear total anonymity, you may well have a poor technique.  Nothing can be done about that in two weeks.

[pianoplayjl]

What's that piece you're having problems with?

[nyiregyhazi]

Dear total anonymity, you may well have a poor technique.  Nothing can be done about that in two weeks.

What a rude and needlessly negative post! What is that worthless statement supposed to offer the poster?

[keyboardclass]

What a rude and needlessly negative post! What is that worthless statement supposed to offer the poster?

The insight that there are no quick fixes in piano technique.

[nyiregyhazi]

The insight that there are no quick fixes in piano technique.

That does not require suggesting that somebody's technique is probably "poor" and implying that they are basically screwed. If that's what you feel, it would be of more benefit to say nothing at all- rather than speak in a way that would only serve to increase the poster's sense of panic. That's an absolutely disgusting way to address a stranger who is already worrying about an upcoming concert. Are you trying to encourage them to cancel the concert or just wishing to make them feel worse about it? Your post contributes zero of any positive value.

While hardly anyone has a truly fantastic technique (anything less than that not automatically being "poor"), the main issue is likely to be practising as if performing. You don't need to blast things out while preparing, except as an occasional test. Even those with the finest of techniques can become overworked if they practise as they are performing too much. Practising octaves and dense chords in mf dynamics is an excellent way to prepare without causing strain- and this can most certainly be done right now.

 

[keyboardclass]

That does not require suggesting that somebody's technique is probably "poor" and implying that they are basically screwed.

Your words not mine.

[nyiregyhazi]

Your words not mine.

"probably" or "may" have "poor technique" is scarcely of consequence. The implication is more than clear enough. Either way it's both deeply rude and deeply unproductive to throw such negative words around- without even attempting to offer anything either positive or potentially constructive to the poster. Reply with whatever inconsequential words you like. I've made my point.

[keyboardclass]

"probably" or "may" have "poor technique" is scarcely of consequence.

There's a big difference between 'may' and 'probably'.  Your straw man technique just doesn't wash - and try to refrain from trashing yet another thread.

[nyiregyhazi]

There's a big difference between 'may' and 'probably'.  Your straw man technique just doesn't wash - and try to refrain from trashing yet another thread.

I had not intended to respond to any pointless extension of this, but I'll simply add that taking a speculative tone does not change the sheer negativity of your post or the absence of any actual constructive advice. If someone says to a person that they "may" be a &~%$, that does not make it any less insulting or any more productive. I hope that the poster will treat your posts in the spirit they deserve to be treated.

As for "trashing the thread", I have provided some constructive advice about differentiating between practising and performance and advised the poster to ignore empty negativity. That is not trashing the thread. Arguing about whether it's okay to be so rude as to tell someone they may have poor technique (and that there's nothing they can do about their problems) is trashing a thread and a whole lot more.

[keyboardclass]

As for "trashing the thread", I have provided some constructive advice about differentiating between practising and performance

Yeh right, as an afterthought.