Finger Trills: How to make them faster and longer?

[eaglebrother]

Hi there!

I find the initial speed of my trilling a little too slow and as the trill lasts longer, it gets slower. I try to train my fingers by trilling (1-2, 1-3, 2-4, 3-4 and so on) for a period of time but it seems that my fingers only get sore but do not really improve in strength. I will like to know of some tips, if any, to train my finger strength so that I can trill faster and longer.

Thx in advance!

[pianoplayjl]

Today I encountered a fingering which was used by thalberg and it was called Thalberg's trill. The fingering, i think, goes like this:1323131323 etc. in the right hand.
So basically you would be using 3 fingers in the trill, 2(fingers 1,2) for 1 note and 1 for the other.
hope this helps.

[49410enrique]

tension is the enemy of speed....

[eaglebrother]

@pianoplayjl thx for the tip, I will try that. But is it recommended to use that to replace the usual trilling(i.e. 2 fingers on 2 notes)?

@49410enrique I agree, I was wondering if there's any exercise that may help ease the tension on my fingers or do I have to do it the hard way and keep trilling until my fingers get stronger? I'm afraid the soreness may affect my fingers permanently. ;(

Any additional comments will be appreciated!

[nyiregyhazi]

@pianoplayjl thx for the tip, I will try that. But is it recommended to use that to replace the usual trilling(i.e. 2 fingers on 2 notes)?

@49410enrique I agree, I was wondering if there's any exercise that may help ease the tension on my fingers or do I have to do it the hard way and keep trilling until my fingers get stronger? I'm afraid the soreness may affect my fingers permanently. ;(

Any additional comments will be appreciated!

What 99% of people do is press with the arm. This crushes the fingers against the keybeds and makes them feel sluggish and overworked. You need to eradicate unnecessary arm pressures. The simplest way to do this is to think of the fingers pushing the knuckles away from the piano (and the notes just happening to go down as you do so)- not of pushing down into the keys.

[lostinidlewonder]

Describing technique in words is always difficult since it is best explained with words and demonstration, but anyway! Shake your hand ever so slightly to help your fingers while they trill. Do not isolate the movement between two fingers that are trilling just between those two fingers you may use your whole hand and and other finger to support the action. Of course context with pieces directs exactly how our technique should approach the trill.

It may be useful to play shorter trill ornament as an exercise and learn to control smaller ornament chunks and then practice connect them together.

For example:  CDC, is an easy single turn to achieve at rapid speed for even those with poor technique. Doing multiple groups of CDC   CDC   CDC .... in rapid progression with a short pause in between will however start to punish those who use poor technique and they will find doing the string consistently over more and more difficult. As you get better connect two groups together, then try to connect three and four without pause. The pause is the key to controlling what you do and ensuring that you remain comfortable. With multiple attempts you are constantly trying to act against wasting energy and feeling tense. The pauses will give you points of complete relaxation and allows you to recover if you start to feel tense. This encourages you to practice technique in the realms of comfort which is what you need to practice with if you ever hope to gain mastery.

[eaglebrother]

@nyiregyhazi I think I wasn't really using my arm but as the trills get longer, I can feel tension in my wrist.

@lostinidlewonder Very nice tips. I was wondering if it's bad technique when my other fingers move when trilling. Coincidentally I chanced upon this video(

) where it gave me some tips on trilling and they happened to be similar to yours! After trying the CDC example that you gave, I could feel my trills are getting more even.

I may have just found the answers to improving my trills. Thx for all the feedback

[nyiregyhazi]

@nyiregyhazi I think I wasn't really using my arm but as the trills get longer, I can feel tension in my wrist.

If your wrist is stiff but your arm is not pushing it's probably because your fingers are pulling backwards slightly, in a way that would tug the wrist forwards. An interesting way to practise is to aim the fingers very slightly forwards instead, so there is nothing that would pull your wrist out of alignment. Alternatively, the whole arm can be felt to pull backwards slightly, to keep the wrist straight- rather than have tensions in the wrist itself.

[scientificpianopractise]

In Kochevitsky's book he refers to research that shows that the fundamental speed limit is the tapping frequency.  Apparently pianists and non-pianists have the same range and apparently that number cannot be improved.  That means that the fastest trill should be twice as fast as your tapping frequency.

If you can't trill as fast as that, then do what you suggested for no more than a minute a day.  But do it every day.  I think you will see progress in a week.

[timothy42b]

In Kochevitsky's book he refers to research that shows that the fundamental speed limit is the tapping frequency.  Apparently pianists and non-pianists have the same range and apparently that number cannot be improved.  That means that the fastest trill should be twice as fast as your tapping frequency.

Probably true if you are trilling with independent fingers.  Do you think that is how a trill is done?

And that pianists and non pianists can trill equally fast? 

You might be misreading his book.  Virtuoso pianists can't tap any faster than ordinary folk, but they can PLAY faster.  That's because playing is not tapping. 

Forearm rotation. 

[vaniii]

Probably true if you are trilling with independent fingers.  Do you think that is how a trill is done?

And that pianists and non pianists can trill equally fast? 

You might be misreading his book.  Virtuoso pianists can't tap any faster than ordinary folk, but they can PLAY faster.  That's because playing is not tapping. 

Forearm rotation. 

This, but also remember that trills as with all ornaments are orchestrated and planned out. At tempo it is an illusion that makes them sound spontaneous.

If one of them are rehearsed and understood, it carries over to the next.

Every aspect of a performance is planned, nothing just happens.