Home
Piano Music
Piano Music Library
Top composers »
Bach
Beethoven
Brahms
Chopin
Debussy
Grieg
Haydn
Mendelssohn
Mozart
Liszt
Prokofiev
Rachmaninoff
Ravel
Schubert
Schumann
Scriabin
All composers »
All composers
All pieces
Search pieces
Recommended Pieces
Audiovisual Study Tool
Instructive Editions
Recordings
PS Editions
Recent additions
Free piano sheet music
News & Articles
PS Magazine
News flash
New albums
Livestreams
Article index
Piano Forum
Resources
Music dictionary
E-books
Manuscripts
Links
Mobile
About
About PS
Help & FAQ
Contact
Forum rules
Pricing
Log in
Sign up
Piano Forum
Home
Help
Search
Piano Forum
»
Piano Board
»
Performance
»
Thumb passing on runs/arpeggios?
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Down
Topic: Thumb passing on runs/arpeggios?
(Read 3267 times)
ericlc
PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 12
Thumb passing on runs/arpeggios?
on: September 06, 2004, 01:38:28 AM
A year and a half ago, I got tendinitis in my right hand, most likely due to a combination of things including weightlifting, tennis, bad posture, etc. in addition to piano -- I was working on Liszt's b minor sonata and Chopin's 2nd Piano Concerto at the time, as well as a couple smaller works by Bach and Scriabin. I went to physial therapy and the Miller Institute in New York, and while I've recovered from the injury, I believe my technique has changed a bit.
Specifically, I find it considerably tougher nowadays to play very rapid chromatic scales and arpeggios. Some of this may be due to the fact that I spent almost nine months working on Bach and Mozart alone, trying to develop a technique similar to Glenn Gould's with much more deliberate and active finger attacks. Now that I've gone back to looking at some works like those of Chopin and Liszt, I find it harder to play these chromatic scales and arpeggios sometimes -- in particular, my touch feels a lot heavier when sometimes a run is just supposed to be a run -- virtuosic, brilliant, and all.
ON A MORE CRITICAL NOTE, I also feel that some of this has to do with my thumb being more tense than it used to be while trying to pass it around other fingers during the scales and arpeggios. Sometimes, at a very fast tempo, it tends to "lock" in a slightly upwards position before the thumb pass -- it's almost as if I'm rotating my right wrist faster than the fingers will move, and that's what causes the right thumb to "fly up" as opposed to "pass under." I'm sure it's because there's some type of tension building up in the process, but I'm not exactly sure how to correct it. My left hand has the same technique with slight thumb passing during the crosses and experiences no pain or tension whatsoever.
Mind you, this isn't a problem for me except in very fast passages (such as in Liszt's Rhapsodie Espagnole or Totentanz), but it almost seems like I'm hitting a "speed wall" that didn't used to be there because my thumb will involuntarily "fly up" or "lock" in an upwards position as I try to step up my tempo.
Has anyone experienced similar symptoms, or seen this problem with other people? Any suggestions as to how to correct it? I would appreciate any advice or insights that you can possibly provide. Thanks so much!
Logged
Email me at ericlc@gmail.com
ted
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 4012
Re: Thumb passing on runs/arpeggios?
Reply #1 on: September 06, 2004, 10:26:25 AM
I'm just an obsessive amateur but at one stage I was bothered by an unwanted, sympathetic movement. In my case, my fourth finger, right hand, moved with the second finger. The only way to get rid of these things, from what I've heard, read and experienced is to defeat the natural urge to concentrate on the faulty finger movement and gradually bring the mind to focus on those movements which are correct until the unwanted reaction fades. It took me some time though, but I was working by myself without proper advice.
I hope one of the experienced professionals on this forum can help you as this phenomenon can be a real bugbear. As for the question of fingers versus weight transfer, I use far too much finger movement myself but I'm more or less too far gone to relinquish it now. I can play Chopin and Liszt studies with it and have grown accustomed to the extra concentration it needs. At least it's always clear and I always have control.
I know it isn't quite optimal though, so perhaps I should let somebody else advise you. Playing rhythmic improvisation, stride, ragtime and swing, however, is something I know considerably more about and, in those fields, nothing is anywhere near as clear-cut as with romantic music. In most cases there, a detached approach, with finger strokes produces more life than weight transfer. Gershwin commented once (can't remember where) on this important difference.
Aside from these exceptional areas I had better let more qualified people help you. Good luck.
Logged
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce
Brian Healey
PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 454
Re: Thumb passing on runs/arpeggios?
Reply #2 on: September 06, 2004, 06:38:16 PM
I too recently fought with tendonitis in my right hand, right at the base of the thumb. The fact that your thumb is still locking up means that there's still tension in your hand, and this will only lead to re-injury down the road. If you've truly adapted an economical technique, then the playing should become easier, not harder. I have two suggestions that helped me immensely and both of them are books.
First is "20 Lessons in Keyboard Choreography" by Seymour Bernstein. This covers everything from bench height and posture to arm movement and wrist rotation. This book is perfect for anything who wants to play better. Even just adjusting the bench height worked for me. A large number of pianist do not really know what their optimal bench height is.
The second book is "Effortless Mastery" by Kenny Werner. Mostly, this is a New-Agey, self-help book that's supposed to adjust the psychological way you approach the piano. What's more useful is the way you can learn to enter a relaxed "space" while playing. The key to effortless playing is total relaxation of the body, from the fingers to the toes.
Both of these books helped me immensely.
Logged
Max
PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 120
Re: Thumb passing on runs/arpeggios?
Reply #3 on: September 06, 2004, 07:31:01 PM
You could also have a go at TO, if you think it's a problem with your thumb and not your technique.
Logged
Sign-up to post reply
Print
Pages: [
1
]
Go Up
For more information about this topic, click search below!
Search on Piano Street