My Opera Stuff

[m1469]

11/15/12 -

Here is a scene from The Dialogues of the Carmelites by Poulenc, with me as Blanche.  Yes, I'm a nun, once again.  The staging bothers me more in this one ... that "screen" is supposed to represent the screen that would normally be between nuns and the public in a convent ... not exactly ultra convincing here, but you get the idea anyway.

11/13/12 -

Annnnddd... here is a scene from Norma from the concert last Sunday.  I am Norma.  It was fun

11/10/12 -

Here are a couple of photos from the dress rehearsal last night:

Here is me as Norma from the Opera Norma by Bellini.  I'm a Druid High Priestess:




Me as a "baby" from Les Mamelles by Poulenc.  I'm wearing a leopard onesie  





************************************************************


Here's the Embroidery Aria from Peter Grimes by Bejamin Britten:

Here's Dich, theure Halle from Tannhäuser by Wagner:

[pianowolfi]

Great! I really like your voice so much, like I always did!
The weekend before last weekend I saw "Othello" and I imagined you as Desdemona, well that Desdemona wasn't bad at all, but I thought you might have done a better job.
Yes please post Suor Angelica!

[goldentone]

Brava!

*Bows at Madame Butterfly's feet*

Thanks for uploading this.

[m1469]

Thanks, guys!  I am definitely open to other roles .  I am supposed to be Japanese, here, can't you tell by the bun?    I feel like I'm still looking for roles that are truly a fit for me both musically and personally.  Fiordiligi is pretty good, from Cosi fan Tutte.  The same people who put these scenes on (and who are also doing the competition in January), are planning a chamber Opera next year, and I think they're planning to be doing Turn of the Screw by Britten.  I was once cast for a scene as the Governess, a few years ago ... and I'm interested in pursuing the possibility of being cast in what would be my first Opera.  

Overall, though, I am just feeling quite relieved that this is over now and becoming a thing that is behind me.  I could feel it physically and to have those kinesthetic feelings gone is quite a load off!  Still have tons to do, but I'm starting to be able to hear myself think again, and hear myself breathing and existing ... phweww.

Yes, I will load Suor Angelica, but it will maybe not happen today or even tomorrow as it takes awhile.  Thanks for listening and watching .

[littletune]

That's really cool!!  I'm really glad you posted it!!! How can you sing sooo good? And it even looks so easy when you sing!!! And I know it's not but it really looks that way!  wow really great! 

[m1469]

Thanks, Littletune.  It is true that I haven't necessarily felt the same kind of toil and soul searching over voice as I have over piano.  I think that many people take that at face value to mean something that it doesn't (this is just a reflection upon things people have told me over the years, not necessarily your comment).  

There are a number of factors which play into that, one of the bottom lines being that even when I was told by somebody I looked up to that I should probably stick with piano (after hearing me sing and my wondering if I should switch majors), my heart wasn't broken about it.  Not even a little.  Which seems to reflect what my earlier attitude was regarding it.  I was perfectly happy to keep studying piano and keep studying voice for what I thought was just for fun.  As I grew, there has been *very* much support for me, which I do appreciate, but it's been even more sometimes than I can take in efficiently.  I also had a very attentive and enthusiastic teacher for about 7 years, who cared for my main growth and helped me bridge into being a more "serious" performer with voice, and then there have been teachers who have been willing to work with me in areas that my main teacher didn't necessarily handle.  I also have bothered very little to stop and think about how things work with voice and instead have relied very much on the kinesthetics of it; I am athletic and so there is something about that which carries over for me.  With piano, ever since I started seriously, I have been in a constant state of very consciously thinking through what I am doing, why it's working, why it's not working, what needs to happen next, in hopes to be a good teacher.  I think that also makes a difference.


Along with that, I've toiled over things and music enough to give me a sense of what that feels like, even if it's not been about voice.  As well, since I've been studying with my two piano teachers, I've even made significant gains vocally as a side effect, though there are very conscious aspects which have carried over from one to the other for me, even with technique, and I've been able to work on my own.  There are also some things, like certain triplet runs in one of my audition arias that really haven't come for me even for years, until just in the last several months.  But, it didn't hurt my inner being.  

There are also inexplicable things about it all for me, too, like the sense of feeling torn that I have sometimes felt.  That is a deep water and not easy!  But, I also need so much just to continue on a path in a consistent way, knowing I can't give up piano and probably I can't give up singing, that I just can't -emotionally, energetically, etc.- let myself "go there" with voice.  I need something to be like that.

I suppose a person can take that for whatever they want - most people don't enjoy my long responses like that when it comes to what they want to hear from me about my voice.  I am also aware that I can get a lot better and that this would take consistent practice beyond what I am doing now.  I suppose, though, I feel like it's my voice, it's my journey, and I can say what I want to about it, when I feel inclined  .

I know you didn't actually ask for this, but I thank you all the same for listening to my singing and for your comments .

[m1469]

Ah, and I will add even one more thing  .  I would imagine that if I didn't have piano in my life as it has been, and instead tried to dump my entire musical intensity into my vocal studies, bad things would happen  .

[thalbergmad]

There are a number of factors which play into that, one of the bottom lines being that even when I was told by somebody I looked up to that I should probably stick with piano (after hearing me sing and my wondering if I should switch majors)

Whoever said that might well change their mind if they saw this.

I know nothing about singing, but I was rather shocked when I saw this. I did not expect that powerful voice to come out of lil old you. I cannot distinguish between your voice and those I have heard that make a living from it.

Wonderful, incredible and altogether massive.

Thal

[m1469]

Suor Angelica is up now, too, in the original post .

Whoever said that might well change their mind if they saw this.

Hi Thal, glad you are back .  Yes, they have indeed long since changed their mind!  

I know nothing about singing, but I was rather shocked when I saw this. I did not expect that powerful voice to come out of lil old you. I cannot distinguish between your voice and those I have heard that make a living from it.

Wonderful, incredible and altogether massive.

Thal

Thanks!

[littletune]

Wow this Suor Angelica looks kinda scary and sad!  (I mean not the person, the opera) Is it about someone dying?

You're completely different in this one m1469!  But you're really great in both of them!!    Thanks for posting!! 

[m1469]

You're completely different in this one m1469!  

Thanks for noticing!  

Both Operas actually end with me killing myself!  But, these scenes in isolation are polar opposites in character.  In Madama, we have a rare scene that is full of joy and happiness, as Butterfly's long-awaited husband/love is back from three years of having been called away, and in this scene she feels she has withstood all the doubt of others and now, finally, her husband has come back just as she believed he would, despite what others (even Suzuki, her maid and friend) told her.  He just happens to have arrived with his American wife, too   ... buuuuutttt, in that scene I don't know that yet!

In Suor, I/Angelica has been sent away to a convent because I had an illegitimate child, and I have been waiting for 7 years for some word from my family about anything, but especially about my child.  In this scene, my Aunt has come after 7 silent years, solely to have me sign a document which basically erases me from the family, so that my little sister can get married without that "stain" from my past being on the family name.  Upon my Aunt finally telling me of my child, which is what I am pleading of her to tell me of, I find out that my son died two years ago!  So, that scene ends with me finding that out, "fainting" and then finally signing the document and removing me from the family forever.  So cruel!  It was a push to be such opposite characters between scenes, but the Artistic Director seems to have a kind of soft spot for me and just loves to push me theatrically ... hee hee.  She's always wanting for me to take more risks in acting, and it's fun .  She is convinced that, as a pianist, I am used to "hiding" behind the instrument and that as a singer I can't do this ...  .

[goldentone]

I watched Suor Angelica last night not long after you uploaded it.  That was rather intense.  Very good! Not enough of you singing, though.  Your accompanist needs to pipe down.  And I have to say you looked very cute in your convent attire.

So glad you shared this one too.

[m1469]

I watched Suor Angelica last night not long after you uploaded it.

Ah!  I had to let it go whilest I *tried* to sleep.  It finished after I went to sleep.  

That was rather intense.  Very good!

Yes, I watched several other performances on YouTube, and I noticed that this was staged a bit intense by comparison.  The Artistic Director probably really envisioned it that way, but I think she also really wanted me to let it out ...   ... hee hee.  One time my duet partner and I partnered up in our beginning of the rehearsal games where we mirrored each other's motions and emotions, and we were supposed to be mad about something ... I was leading and ended up having us strangle somebody imaginary (not to death, just a little because in my story, I was mad and just decided to strangle them a little just because I could, since they were imaginary and my partner had to do it, too, since I did ... haha) .

Not enough of you singing, though.

 

Yes, I agree  .  I will admit, I enjoyed the duets and all, yeah yeah yeah, but I grew a little hungry for arias   .

And I have to say you looked very cute in your convent attire.

Thanks!  Now the whole world has seen me in my underwears .... that was a slip (and a skull cap) on my head  .

So glad you shared this one too.

Thanks for watching and listening!

[countrymath]

i was thought you were redhead

great singing =)

[ted]

Thanks for posting this glimpse into a world I know next to nothing about. For some reason singing in all its forms has escaped my perception over the years, and that admission reveals the true narrowness of my musicianship. My father loved opera ever since he fought in Italy in 1942-1944. He was impressed with how it seemed to be loved and infused in the spirit of the common people in a way quite foreign to the Anglo Saxon temperament. I can remember being deeply moved by some of these operas he took me to when I was a little boy, but alas, over the decades I have lost the connection, which has not been nurtured by the somewhat elitist nature of many local opera people.

Perhaps now I can see someone I know and respect in other ways doing this I might be tempted to try again. Thanks for revealing a side of you we  were not aware of.

[m1469]

i was thought you were redhead

great singing =)

Thanks!  Thanks for watching and listening .

Thanks for posting this glimpse into a world I know next to nothing about. For some reason singing in all its forms has escaped my perception over the years, and that admission reveals the true narrowness of my musicianship. My father loved opera ever since he fought in Italy in 1942-1944. He was impressed with how it seemed to be loved and infused in the spirit of the common people in a way quite foreign to the Anglo Saxon temperament. I can remember being deeply moved by some of these operas he took me to when I was a little boy, but alas, over the decades I have lost the connection, which has not been nurtured by the somewhat elitist nature of many local opera people.

Perhaps now I can see someone I know and respect in other ways doing this I might be tempted to try again. Thanks for revealing a side of you we  were not aware of.

Yes, I could be very ashamed to say that I have only actually seen one full, live Opera myself.  There has been some element about it that hasn't moved me, but the Artistic Director that runs this program has helped to really change that for me.  That, and perhaps my own growth. as well.  She herself had been an international opera singer and knows the business fairly well, telling us about the olden days of "stand and deliver" operas where some of the time the singers didn't even know what they were/are talking about (since it's often in a foreign language for them).  As well, there did not used to be too much in the way of acting and a singer would be somewhat lifeless on stage until their time to sing came around, at which point they would suddenly come to life.  She goes on to say that when Super titles came out, that changed everything, as suddenly the actors had to actually act out what they were saying to match what was being interpreted to the audience.  For her, she's always felt that there should be a very large element of acting involved and that's one of her passions regarding this.  I have grown to appreciate opera more through my experiences, and find myself actually quite interested now.  

This workshop I was involved in required that we translate our texts, and be able to recite them in translated speech, as well as act out a modern day scene in this translation.  The workshop also involved lots of improvisation ... LOTS, which, funny as it may sound, was a HUGE push for me often-times.  Most of the time I felt very reluctant until I really started feeling its value.  We were also supposed to know what the opera is about and who our characters are and who the character is we are singing with, what happens before our scene, what happens after, and then a sense of the history of the life of the Opera.  All that seems a bother until I am on stage in performance and feel as though I really know what I am singing about and reacting to in my fellow singers ... and then it all makes sense and I see it shouldn't be any other way!

In any event, thank you to both of you for watching and listening, and for your comments .

[rachfan]

Hi m1469,

You have a wonderful voice!  I so much enjoyed hearing you sing in these operatic roles.  Brava!

David

[m1469]

Thanks, David!  I was *so* close to not doing the thing, but I obviously went ahead and did it and I'm happy I did.  Thanks for listening and commenting .

[birba]

I can't believe you left us hanging in the air and didn't include "senza mamma"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WHY ?!?!?!?  I mean, I've never been big on Puccini (Manon Lescaut is the only one I actually enjoy listening to) But the aria is the culmination of that whole scene with her evil  aunt.
      
I enjoyed listening to you sing - you have a beautiful voice and it must be frustrating to not be able to use it in the theatre.  Do you EVER perform?

[hastur]

Aah!! I remember reading about these in another thread, and I was wondering when they might go up.. I've been looking for it from time to time, but never found it. And then I was browsing the forum sections today and came across it!

This is really quite wonderful! I (apparently like a few other's here) haven't familiarized myself much with vocal pieces all that much in the past. But I must say I really enjoyed them both, Madame Butterfly probably being my favourite.

Upload more of your vocal work!!! Hehe

[m1469]

Thanks for listening Birba and hastur!  I've posted a new video in the original post, this one is the Embroidery Aria from Peter Grimes by Benjamin Britten.  I really love this music!

In this one, Ellen (my character) has found a sweater washed ashore, which she embroidered for a young, orphaned boy, who she was watching over as he was Peter Grime's (a fisherman) helper.  The Opera starts with Peter Grimes being suspected of having killed his last helper, and though he wasn't convicted, the townspeople still pegged him as a murderer.  So, by the time he gets his second helper, everybody is scared for the boy but Ellen, who was going to marry Peter Grimes, is believing in Peter Grimes and hopes to help him build a new life.  I won't give the whole story away, but as I mentioned, the young boy's sweater has washed ashore, so this is a moment where Ellen wonders if she's been wrong about believing in Peter Grimes this whole time, and if in fact she basically helped in what appears to be this young boy's death.

[goldentone]

I'm *soo* glad you uploaded this.  I just had to say Hi, and for now my thought is, I've never heard you sing like this before.  This is something new.

[m1469]

I'm *soo* glad you uploaded this.  I just had to say Hi, and for now my thought is, I've never heard you sing like this before.  This is something new.

Thanks .  And Hi .  I still feel so grateful for my experience and that experience is something I hope to take with me and build upon in both voice and piano. 

[littletune]

Hi from me too m1469! Wow you really have a strong voice!! I'm really glad you posted it!!  And you have a really interesting dress, you look really nice! 

[m1469]

Hi from me too m1469! Wow you really have a strong voice!! I'm really glad you posted it!!   And you have a really interesting dress, you look really nice!  

Hi .  I love that dress.  I got it at a different time in my life and would like to find my way back to a similar kind of time in the future, but it was one of those few articles of clothing where, when I saw it, it just absolutely called to me and it seemed like it was made for me.  It was a bit of an investment as it was handmade with beautiful fabrics, etc..  I think I've got more dresses to buy at some point!  

Thank you .

[m1469]

Okay, I've also uploaded Dich, theure Halle and have posted it in the original post here.  hee hee.  I think that maybe it's OK anyway as my first ever attempt with Wagner.  This one is a much different scenario, as in the Opera, I have actually returned to a singing Hall that I associate with Tannhäuser and this gives me happiness.  In real life, I actually love this Hall that I was singing in and it had been awhile since I had been in there making music, so I was very much singing to this Hall itself.  That worked out nicely, but I find so far that the "happy joy joy" stories are a little more difficult for me character-wise than the more tragic ... such as the Embroidery Aria.  

Aretha Franklin is apparently looking for a new Opera Star and wanting to sign 1-3 people on her label and help them get established in the Opera world ... I think, what the hayflower, I might as well send these in  .

Cheers!

[hastur]

I really liked the new piece, "Dich, theure halle"! I'm amazed at the power of your voice, I can't produce anything at even half that strength!!! Hehe..

Aretha Franklin is apparently looking for a new Opera Star and wanting to sign 1-3 people on her label and help them get established in the Opera world ... I think, what the hayflower, I might as well send these in  .

You most definitely should!! You can do it!

[m1469]

I really liked the new piece, "Dich, theure halle"! I'm amazed at the power of your voice, I can't produce anything at even half that strength!!! Hehe..

Thanks!

You most definitely should!! You can do it!

Well, it seems a little bit like entering the lottery ...  .  I'll just send the stuff off and move forward with the next thing in line .

[goldentone]

What the hayflower.

Thanks for uploading the Wagner.  Brava!

[littletune]

Hi .  I love that dress.  I got it at a different time in my life and would like to find my way back to a similar kind of time in the future, but it was one of those few articles of clothing where, when I saw it, it just absolutely called to me and it seemed like it was made for me.  It was a bit of an investment as it was handmade with beautiful fabrics, etc..  I think I've got more dresses to buy at some point!  

Thank you .

I thought there was something special about that dress!
I really love the new one too "Dich, theure halle" and it's great to see you smiling and happy

[m1469]

Here are a couple of photos from the dress rehearsal last night:

Me as a "baby" from Les Mamelles by Poulenc.  I'm wearing a leopard onesie  



Here is me as Norma from the Opera Norma by Bellini.  I'm a Druid High Priestess:



Private Matinee concert today, Public Concert tomorrow ... then life goes on come Monday

[cmg]

Very, very impressive, m1469.  The last time I listened to one of your clips it was a very lovely Pamina, if I recall correctly.

Now, Wagner and Puccini!  Your sound is full and rich and you're very expressive.  Do you consider yourself spinto now? 

Thanks for posting these.  Onward and upward!

Best,

Michael

[m1469]

Hi, Michael,

Thanks!  Right now I think I am getting a little more comfortable with not pigeon-holing myself to one particular Fach, and instead embracing a few that are near each other.  I still hear all sorts of things from others, well, within the ones that I am deciding I will embrace, but yes I do consider myself as capable of singing Spinto repertoire.  But, I also consider myself capable of singing Full Lyric, Dramatic, and Dramatic Coloratura.  I think it's not that strange for me to sing in all of these, actually, especially at this precise point in my life while my voice is actually still growing and developing.  

It's strange, I've been having a particular vocal challenge that I haven't been able to figure out really, but just yesterday I think I started to figure out what the deal is (reasoning through it) and there is just a half-step difference between two notes in my upper register that seems like a giant leap.  It wasn't this same challenge before within the last year but became one because my voice changed, and suddenly I will need to adjust and things will feel very different up there.  I didn't know that's part of the package when you're a singer, but it makes sense .  Anyhoo, the performance went well yesterday, looking forward to tonight's public concert and then to moving forward with other things come tomorrow.  Hopefully there will be more photos that I like enough to post and perhaps I will not hate the video.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I didn't know you sing!

That's pretty rad!

[cmg]

I didn't know you sing!

That's pretty rad!

hey, rach, what's "rad" mean?  I seem always to be a word behind you:  just figured "salty" means sad, yes?  You make me feel as if English is my second language, LOL!




And good luck, m1469, with "Norma."  Easily one of my favorite bel canto operas.  What a tough sing!   

[rachmaninoff_forever]

hey, rach, what's "rad" mean?  I seem always to be a word behind you:  just figured "salty" means sad, yes?  You make me feel as if English is my second language, LOL!




And good luck, m1469, with "Norma."  Easily one of my favorite bel canto operas.  What a tough sing!   

Rad - cool/awesome
Salty - sad
Ugly - anything extreme or moderate
Dude - person

Erm...  That's just what I can think of from the top of my head.

[cmg]

Erm...  That's just what I can think of from the top of my head.

Thanks, rach.  But what's "erm"? 

[costicina]

  What puzzles me is 'ugly': moderate and extreme are mutually exclusive, not synonimous, so how can the same adjective be used for both? 

[m1469]

Thanks for the good wishes, the performance went well .

[m1469]

11/13/12 -

Annnnddd... here is a scene from Norma from the concert last Sunday.  I am Norma.  It was fun

[rachmaninoff_forever]

What puzzles me is 'ugly': moderate and extreme are mutually exclusive, not synonimous, so how can the same adjective be used for both? 

Well I use moderate for extremely dull.  I think most people think that moderate means normal.  But anyways ugly is on the extreme sides of normal. 

So let's say someone's at a college audition.  I you wear a freaking tux, then that's ugly.  The same goes for if you're wearing pajamas or something.

[m1469]

Here is a scene from The Dialogues of the Carmelites by Poulenc, with me as Blanche.  Yes, I'm a nun, once again.  The staging bothers me more in this one ... that "screen" is supposed to represent the screen that would normally be between nuns and society in a convent ... not exactly ultra convincing here, but you get the idea anyway.

[oxy60]

Only someone who has tried to do this can really appreciate what it takes. I tried but never got past a church soloist level.

You've got something here. Are there still the Met Auditions that are held in various parts of the country? It might be something to think about.

[m1469]

Well, I think theoretically anybody could get an audition for the Met anytime ... but, that's by invitation or connections only, or so.  Other than that, I believe they do hold some competitions/auditions around the Country, but I believe I've aged out of those ... I'm not positive though.

[oxy60]

I don't think age has anything to do with it. However, if some are being held in your area it would be worth your while to sit in the audience. Then you will hear how really good you are.

[m1469]

Thanks for your thoughts.  When there are set age limits and they ask for your birth certificate as proof of age in order to apply for things, then age does seem to come into play.  I could always try to apply anyway, as I feel I am ultimately the age I am cast for.  "My area" is literally hundreds of miles of deep forest in every direction and it would be at least about a 6 hour drive to get to auditions for something like that, if that close (I haven't really investigated the places and it may be more like 13 hours).  Of course it would be something worth doing, I'm sure (especially if something practical comes of it for me).  The basic cost of flying out of my area and back is over $400 (there may be some exceptions) ... so, one can imagine the type of expense it is to fly out for auditions, lessons, etc..  There is simply no way for us to match it right now or any time in the foreseeable future.  There are two local "Opera Companies" here, neither of which hire locally (for their own reasons), one of those not even holding auditions.

I find myself in a rather mighty struggle to mentally, let alone physically, bridge the gap between mere potential and reality, in all ways right now.  Don't get me wrong, my wheels are turning, but I seem to be forced, often enough, into mentally and emotionally letting go of everything I've ever wanted for myself before any movement in any direction ever takes place.  That happened last Wednesday, remained on Thursday, and there starts to be something glimmering by yesterday.  I haven't got the faintest idea what the glimmer actually is, but it's a glimmer anyway.

I've had enough people, even some who are actually from the Met (like Nico and Carol Castel, for example), who seem to believe in me and encourage me to continue.  I've had a share of the opposite in ways, too, of course.  But, there is a gap right now between ideas and actions/manifestations.  I am simply back to the drawing board on nearly every level at the time.  I need to make lists, I need to put more efforts into my teaching, I need to take greater joy in simple things and truly have gratitude for these things.

[m1469]

There's been an interesting occurrence though, in that my voice teacher from years ago, here in town, is suddenly a great voice teacher for me again.  She helped me for years, and then I needed to do other things for several years, and now suddenly she seems like a perfect match again.  

Here is my "backyard" - OK, this is about 15 minutes from door-to-door, including a skinny windy road.  But, this is literally what completely surrounds my area (I took a little hike today and got to feeling a lot better).  I definitely appreciate it for what it is.

[oxy60]

That picture is just gorgeous.  What a place to be inspired!

I sympathize with you. I have spent a fair amount of time living in remote locations. I'm vacationing in one right now. It is peaceful, very quiet and really enjoyable.

You mention LA but isn't SF closer?

I'm glad to know some people from the Met agree with me.

You might not need to show up in person. Maybe a DVD would do.

When I went to sit in the audience the Met was holding them at UCLA and I was just across town. That might have been the only West Coast venue. But there must be a process of elimination before the show of the finalists. I know very little about it except that after that evening I knew I was out of their league.

Good luck.

[m1469]

That picture is just gorgeous.  What a place to be inspired!

I sympathize with you. I have spent a fair amount of time living in remote locations. I'm vacationing in one right now. It is peaceful, very quiet and really enjoyable.

Well, it's definitely one thing to visit, another to be stuck - and that probably goes for almost anywhere.  As somebody I respect once said "inspiration without action is just euphoria" ... and then there's even something which is hella worse on the other side of euphoria.

You mention LA but isn't SF closer?

Yes, of course, but I don't know that they have Met auditions there.  I have a diction coach who works at the Conservatory down there who I haven't seen for a few years now, but I may come out of the woodwork and get a hold of her again.  She's let me participate in her studio class there, before.

I'm glad to know some people from the Met agree with me.

Well, I don't know them know them.  I just worked with them several years back.

You might not need to show up in person. Maybe a DVD would do.

When I went to sit in the audience the Met was holding them at UCLA and I was just across town. That might have been the only West Coast venue. But there must be a process of elimination before the show of the finalists. I know very little about it except that after that evening I knew I was out of their league.

Good luck.

Well, there will inevitably be preliminary rounds and perhaps some are by video (this seems to be the norm more and more).  Even that is a challenge to get together, but it's on my list  .  I don't imagine I would be vocally ready for a Met audition until about a year from now with some consistent work.

[Bob]

Why not move? Won't you have to move eventually if things work out?