Help with the big Atcl piece.. without Classical?

[kasi_mana]

Hello piano street as you can see this is my first post and it's another good 'ol boring Atcl help  
Well this year I just scraped through grade 8 and next year i'm doing an Atcl (I want to at least get an Atcl before I finish high school). My teacher and I have agreed on this:

Bach - prelude and gigue from Partita no.1 in Bflat maj
Chopin - Ballade no. 3 in Aflat maj
And possibly Debussy - la plus que lente

Now for the big sonata piece, my teacher told me it should be a classical piece for the obvious period reason . Now I love most types of music from early baroque right through to techno/hip hop but stopping at 2010 music onwards of course (jb, lady gaga ughhh), but somehow, I don't know why I just can't enjoy playing a classical piece, especially Mozart... (sorry...). My teacher tried to get me to do a Haydn piece he loved and I sympathized with him but I just can't see myself practicing them really...

So what do you think I should do for my big piece? Which classical piece do you think can convert me to a classical believer? I have played the whole Beethoven pathetique sonata and I played a bit of the Schubert in A minor D.845 and loved it but with Chopin already being romantic I'm not so sure... So anyways if someone could help me would be great thanks

[jalexh]

Pathetique is a Classical sonata.

Otherwise, try Mozart 8 or 14 for pieces with more Romantic temperaments:

The trick to appreciating much non-Beethovian Classical period music is not to look for the Romantic period in it  

[kasi_mana]

Thank you the first Mozart one sounds great but Im not sure if it's in the syllabus but it probably doesn't matter if it's in an atcl level it can be approved.

And if Beethoven's pathetique is classical, would Schubert be too? They're very much living around the same time aren't they? The reason I don't want to do pathetique is because it's so overplayed in exams and competition and I want something different.. Altho Chopin was quite overplayed aswell..

[49410enrique]

i'm not sure what actl means but if you're not set on a  multi mvt work perhaps an extended single movement work?

Mozart Fantasy K475 C Minor Bonn Beethoven-Haus Lisitsa

[kasi_mana]

Oh sorry most people here probably do rcm. Atcl is associate of the trinity college of london. Like diploma 1st degree or I think an equivalent of arcm? And Mozart fantasia sounds great too but the time requirements is 32-38 and I don't wanna do more than 4 pieces so one piece would have to be some 15-20 mins long and 3 other piece around 5 mins long... But I'll think about this piece as one of the smaller ones thank you

[49410enrique]

Oh sorry most people here probably do rcm. Atcl is associate of the trinity college of london. Like diploma 1st degree or I think an equivalent of arcm? And Mozart fantasia sounds great too but the time requirements is 32-38 and I don't wanna do more than 4 pieces so one piece would have to be some 15-20 mins long and 3 other piece around 5 mins long... But I'll think about this piece as one of the smaller ones thank you

what about our dear neglected friend Hummel? He is often tought of as a bridge compser from classical to romantic (even if he was a bit conservative). if my music history serves me correctly he studied under Mozart and along with Beethoven, with Haydn and others. Even though they are somtimes painted as rivals, they apparently shared a mutual respect for each other's work.  Hummel I believe was really a pianist at heart and composed quite a bit for our instrument even though he is mostly remembered for chamber music and some instrumental (non piano) concertos.

youtube will connect you to her perf of II and III

[kasi_mana]

Thanks Enrique that piece was intensely amazing and so underrated.. Man you guys in this forum know some great classical works.. All so deep and emotional.. Although I'm not sure if it's on an Atcl level or my level haha sounds extremely difficult

[bleicher]

I'm not answering the question you actually asked, but I do have some advice for you. If you've just done your grade 8 (and by your own admission, just scraped through), it's very unlikely that you will be ready to take your ATCL next year. ATCL is much harder than grade 8 and the difference in difficulty is much more than the difference between grade 7 and 8. The failure rate of ATCL is very high because so many people take it too soon after grade 8. I recommend you go for an Advanced Certificate instead.

[jalexh]

And if Beethoven's pathetique is classical, would Schubert be too? They're very much living around the same time aren't they? The reason I don't want to do pathetique is because it's so overplayed in exams and competition and I want something different.. Altho Chopin was quite overplayed aswell..

Schubert's earlier sonatas, 1-13, are certainly Classical style, from 14 onwards you are on shaky ground. Same for Beethoven; his first 10 or so are indisputably Classical whilst the later ones might be termed 'proto-Romantic'. Classifying Beethoven and Schubert is difficult; in Schubert's late works I'd say he is most of the way towards the Romantic period proper though still very much influenced by Classicism; in Beethoven's mid works he expanded the Classical style to the point of bursting whilst remaining strongly influenced by it, and by his late period he had arrived somewhere entirely other which can hardly sensibly be called either Classical or Romantic, though it contains strong elements of both styles. He is often referred to as the harbinger of the Romantic period but I think it is more accurate to view some Romantic music as much a reaction to Beethoven as a natural progression from him. Certainly this is true for progressive composers such as Liszt and Wagner who thought Beethoven had taken absolute music as far as it could go and responded with their elaborate programmatic music. But then Brahms seems like a fairly natural extension from Beethoven...

Anyway, early Schubert and Beethoven will be fine.

[yodaofpiano]

I'm in the same boat with you, I don't like Mozart or Haydn, for the most part. Therefore I say Beethoven. Maybe you could try 81a...?

[scott13]

Both Beethoven and Schubert will be fine to fill the classical gap in your programme, as neither are similar to the writing style of Chopin. Personally i would suggest Beethoven over Schubert, as many examiners fine the latter dull and boring to listen too.

[werq34ac]

Both Beethoven and Schubert will be fine to fill the classical gap in your programme, as neither are similar to the writing style of Chopin. Personally i would suggest Beethoven over Schubert, as many examiners fine the latter dull and boring to listen too.

I also hear that Schubert is incredibly difficult to make sound interesting.

[scott13]

I also hear that Schubert is incredibly difficult to make sound interesting.

It is indeed, hence why most find it boring. Typically you are dealing with a very thin texture is Schubert and this does at times get tedious to listen too. However, Schubert played well is rather spectacular.

[nyiregyhazi]

I'm not answering the question you actually asked, but I do have some advice for you. If you've just done your grade 8 (and by your own admission, just scraped through), it's very unlikely that you will be ready to take your ATCL next year. ATCL is much harder than grade 8 and the difference in difficulty is much more than the difference between grade 7 and 8. The failure rate of ATCL is very high because so many people take it too soon after grade 8. I recommend you go for an Advanced Certificate instead.

I'd agree that it's probably not a good idea to go straight into it. Probably better to develop technique by learning some other pieces first- rather than start exam repertoire with what will likely be bad habits. There's no such thing as an advanced certificate any more though, I thought? The ABRSM board replaced with a DipABRSM. Isn't the ATCL the equivalent standard of that anyway? Or is that equivalent to an LRSM?

[kasi_mana]

Wow thanks for all the advice i havent been on here for a while... To bleicher and nyiregyhazi, what I mean by scraped through is like you said I started with my exam piece and just practice them without really doing much technique refinements (apart from the scales, which were my weakest link along with aural tests.. but I still manage to get a high merit somehow, possibly with some luck ) so I know what you mean by doing some other pieces to develop techniques but like I said I really want an Atcl at least before I finish my highschool since it will be perfect for my uni. CV to go with my violin . 

I know it's not good for my playing (which I will refine properly as soon as I get my Atcl) and it's quite risky but I also skipped grade 6 and 7 so me and my teacher are crazy people anyways hahaha we are the "why nots" type of people

[pytheamateur]

Oh sorry most people here probably do rcm. Atcl is associate of the trinity college of london. Like diploma 1st degree or I think an equivalent of arcm? And Mozart fantasia sounds great too but the time requirements is 32-38 and I don't wanna do more than 4 pieces so one piece would have to be some 15-20 mins long and 3 other piece around 5 mins long... But I'll think about this piece as one of the smaller ones thank you

And I think the Mozart Fantasia is actually an FTCL piece.

[precipitato]

hi there, glad to help! yes, the big sonata in ATCL is usually the most major work, glad to see you excited in it!

as for me, when i did my atcl, i chose mozart's a major sonata k. 331.

And I think the Mozart Fantasia is actually an FTCL piece.

um, i don't think so? the schumann and schubert are in ftcl, no mozart in ftcl. im a ftcl haha

i have seen some people tend to avoid these beethoven and mozart sonatas, as they are very commonly played in exams. but, for me i suggest you to take these works, for if you want to take an exam, you will have a really high standard of it, so you would outshine the others.

it shouldn't be difficulty being the obstacle, it is your abilities. just pick a sonata that you find interesting, and nail it!

[pytheamateur]

hi there, glad to help! yes, the big sonata in ATCL is usually the most major work, glad to see you excited in it!

as for me, when i did my atcl, i chose mozart's a major sonata k. 331.

um, i don't think so? the schumann and schubert are in ftcl, no mozart in ftcl. im a ftcl haha

Thanks for correcting.

[hoohah2]

I think this piece is on that list:

Beethoven - Piano Sonata Op.10 No.3

Beautiful work and underplayed.