Digital piano suggestions for me to try out (about $3000 max)

[_achilles_]

I've been using a Casio PS-20 for a month or so after starting lessons back up a month or so ago (a 3 year break since I left high school). I've decided that I should upgrade to a nicer digital as soon as I save enough money... that of course depends on my choice.

By far the most important factor for me is the feel and action of the keys. I'll be playing with
headphones a good deal of the time so having nice speakers is secondary. Bells and whistles are nice but not at all deciding.

I went to the music shop and tried out a Roland HP 302, which I really liked, although it felt a little light on the weight of the keys. I want to try try pianos similar to this before I make a decision. I've heard that the Yamaha CLP/CVP series is in this category. I've also read a lot of  good things about the Kawai CA63, it seems to fill all the gaps that the hp302 had (based off what I've read), any impressions on kawai?

Any input on any of this is very welcome!

[pianoplayjl]

Yamaha Clavinova?

Just choose which digital piano you like best and feels good.

JL

[_achilles_]

Yamaha Clavinova?

Just choose which digital piano you like best and feels good.

JL

I sort of already had mentioned that one in my first post...

[pianoplayjl]

Hemington dp501? you haven't mentioned that in your post. NOt sure if that's a  good digital piano though.

[pianoyutube]

By far the most important factor for me is the feel and action of the keys.

Well, the feel of the keyboard is a subjective issue. Some users of digital pianos find the touch to light. anyway you can easily change the configurations of the touch and make it heavier or lighter.

As I'm used to a kawai grand, I feel that the kawai CA63 has a touch similar to the grand piano. I own a CA63, and it's perfect for me.

I tried some Roland and Yamaha pianos, with the same range of prices, and I preferred the kawai, but that was not an easy choice. I think all these brands, and probably others, have nice pianos.
You must play the pianos to make the best decision for you.

[pianoplayjl]

It doesn't matter which digital piano is good as long as you like it. We are just putting up suggestions and advice on which to buy. Ultimately the decision is yours.

JL

[john90]

If your current keyboard is weighted I would stick with that until it breaks. For me, PC's or Mac Garage Band sounds better/as good as any digital sounds built in to a keyboard. So I ignore built in sounds which are not upgradable, and go entirely on touch, which is great, as you can evaluate without plugging in. Sounds like your idea. Lots are acceptable, almost all Rolands and Yamaha Clarinova's. In practise I buy any weighted keyboard for less than £300 off ebay. Pedals & stands are expensive separately (watch out), and you might get a nice stool thrown in.

I tried Yamaha acoustic upright pianos in silent mode also. They have Midi out, and hold their value better than a pure digital only piano. The best for feel, better than the acoustic in silent mode, was a Roland HPi 7F with a PHA III keyboard, which really does feel like a baby grand, great touch. Sounds were unconvincing, and it is overly large, heavy, perhaps just over your limit, but there may be a cheaper model with that keyboard. I also tried the Yamaha Avant-Grand, a new one in for Christmas. It didn't feel like a proper grand, but was better than a normal digital. The Roland possibly felt nicer than a low end grand action. After I pressed a key on the Roland, it felt like the hammer was hitting a string. On the Avant Grand that sensation was missing.

I have been thinking about getting an old grand piano to put in a silent system, as I don't want my curent acoustic messed with. Could be a lot cheaper that a high end digital, and the pedal weight and case rigidity of the piano never feel right on any digital I have tried.

[pianoplayjl]

Best to buy a digital piano or a weighted keyboard if you can't afford a piano. 

[jimbo320]

Try out a Yamaha CP50 if you can. You might be amazed.
I have one as part of my gear and it's as close to an acoustic as I could find. And to boot it's about half of what you're willing to spend.
I like my CP5 better but that's twice as much.
That's my opinion anyway...

[willvenables]

$3000 max? on a digital?...

I am unbiased - really, but i have played the newest, best, most expensive etc. and all they try to do is be like the real thing. Bells and whistles disappear as digital becomes higher end...

and the bells and whistles which can command a higher price the mid-range models, like Yamaha CVP over CLP series clavinovas, are really just incorporating the basic MIDI voices, styles, record etc. functions that you actually get in a ~$200 keyboard right?

So, why consider spending as much as $3000 if you aren't fussed about bells and whistles and are focusing more on the tone and touch? Because you want something as authentic as the real thing, right?

You can have the real thing for less than $3000 and practise quietly with the celeste rail (mute/muffler pedal) as a standard (free) feature. In 50years time, the acoustic upright piano (vertical) will still be working and should have at least doubled in value (maybe not in real terms). The digital will most likely have been changed just 1/10th of that time, traded in or sold privately when you want something even more authentic... but its value will be just a 1/4 of what you paid.

If you must practise with headphones, then invest in a Yamaha silent series acoustic upright piano. A real piano with facility to obstruct hammers from striking strings whilst grey scale shutters / optical sensors accurately read the key travel and rotary switches read pedal travel... digital piano via headphones - and I guarantee it is a more convincing tone, feel - overall experience over and above any digital piano for any money... and you can switch the middle pedal back to acoustic mode and you have a standard 'real' piano again.

In the European market - the ideal model for easy delivery / compact space / stairs/ tight turns etc. is the Yamaha B1SI silent upright and we sell these for £3,500 ($5700) new. You may find a similar example pre-owned close to your budget. But please, realise this is a far better investment in both money and experience terms.

[pianoyutube]

$3000 max? on a digital?...

If you must practise with headphones, then invest in a Yamaha silent series acoustic upright piano. A real piano with facility to obstruct hammers from striking strings whilst grey scale shutters / optical sensors accurately read the key travel and rotary switches read pedal travel... digital piano via headphones - and I guarantee it is a more convincing tone, feel - overall experience over and above any digital piano for any money... and you can switch the middle pedal back to acoustic mode and you have a standard 'real' piano again.

I think that if you buy a silent piano, you pay the price of two pianos, an acoustic and a digital one.
And, I don't know why a pianist can't buy a digital piano. Or two pianos, acustic and digital. The digital piano has some advantages after all.

[jimbo320]

If nothing else, try lugging an acoustic around (lol)...

[derschoenebahnhof]

See my other post, I bought the Yamaha YDP 181 and so far am very satisfied. Sure, there are the purists who will scream. Everything is a compromise and a digital piano is no exception. Will not last as long as an acoustic one, costs more to repair (and forget about doing repairs yourself), but great for practicing.

You can find it for less than $1700 with some promotions.

CG

If nothing else, try lugging an acoustic around (lol)...

[ocngypz]

Check out the Kawai CN 43.  A lot of bang for the buck and my fingers are quite happy after 50 years on grand keyboards.

[jimbo320]

I've played one. They are pretty nice...

[Derek]

I can vouch for the Roland HP-302. I have one, and I love it. I got it for exactly 3000$ on sale. From what I've read, it should be possible to nab one for less than that, though. It's a fantastic instrument, you'll love it. If your long term goals for piano playing are to play for yourself and enjoy yourself at it whilst not giving your family headaches or getting complaints from neighbors, it will be perfect. It's about the best money can buy for that purpose. It exhibits certain features of piano sound that one typically does not find on digitals, that does take a step closer to acoustic grand sound. If you can find an older Roland to compare it to, you'll see what a giant leap their technology has taken. In terms of dynamic range, you may find an acoustic grand unwieldy after playing the HP-302. But again, it all depends on your purpose. Serious piano student? You should always have an acoustic piano to practice on. Happy go lucky amateur? digitals are great.

[john90]

If nothing else, try lugging an acoustic around (lol)...

My RD300s (first version) Digital keyboard is full of lead, and almost 55kg. Try lugging that!

I tried the latest Roland digital grand $5000 last week, and with the volume off and not touching the flimsy pedals it is very convincing. With the volume on I hated it. Trying so hard, it felt so false. It felt more real than the Yamaha upright in silent mode (both no volume). With the Yamaha, it was alright with the sound on. The touch is less realistic on the Yamaha when it is in silent mode. It is still very good though, and there is a lot of mind stuff going on. I have never tried a proper grand with a silent system. There is certainly something missing when there are no hammers hitting strings.

For practise in the 90s, I had a Yamaha PSR something. Really light, not even touch sensitive, not even full size, but it was so so useful at night and travelling. Today, something similar, touch sensitive, light weight, is 200GBP new.

Perhaps we should accept digital pianos for what they are, something great, useful, but something that will never be, feel or sound like a real piano. With that in mind, you can be happy with a 300 quid or less used digital off ebay, and an acoustic without a silent system. But I would like Midi out (even Midi in) on my acoustic... Here are some nice quality classic digital piano sounds.

Edit/Update: My son has been using my RD300s weighted keyboard so much that I bought another, yesterday, which came with a stand, what seems to be a good working Laney 65w linebacker keyboard amp, one dead key (usually fluff/hair on the contact) all for 120 pounds. It looks so cool, and the bass is amazing for a digital. I wish I had this when I was 18. I also won a D330 Piano Synth module as above youtube for 75 quid in another auction. Will be interesting to hear it throught the amp.

[jimbo320]

John90,
Before you make any lasting judgements try a Yamaha C5 with your eyes closed and see how amazing it feels and sounds...

[willvenables]

I think that if you buy a silent piano, you pay the price of two pianos, an acoustic and a digital one.
And, I don't know why a pianist can't buy a digital piano. Or two pianos, acustic and digital. The digital piano has some advantages after all.

I quite agree - the cost of a silent piano is pretty much acoustic + digital, the point is, there are many who still are unaware of the combination being out there and purely choose a digital for the volume control and headphones over and above an acoustic... and typically it is those who buy an 'expensive' digital that is close in price to a silent upright.

The portability of a digital is a feature, particularly a stage piano. Of course pianists can have digital pianos - many do. I just feel there isn't enough confidence in some acoustic pianos in this price range nor is there enough awareness of hybrid pianos. For those who aren't really fussed about the typical digital features (phones/volume/record/voices/MIDI) an acoustic piano of a decent standard in good condition should still be considered, surely?

[pianoplayjl]

Roland fp-2

[john90]

Hi Jimbo320. I was trying to compare touch, Silent mode only, volume off. I tried the new Acoustic Yamaha Grands ears turned off. Great. I then tried a new Yamaha Avant Grand Digital. First version used to have a grand action apparently (vid on youtube), but digital sound output. The latest Avant digital grand was not a patch, expensive, too big to carry, whatever it had in wasn't better than my old Roland stage piano. Btw, most Yamaha grands now have plastic sharp keys like new smaller Steinways. Lol! So if you are buying a new Yamaha grand, make sure it is from their Vienna factory, apparently it seems they still have lots of lovely wood left.

The Yam acoustic uprights with silent mode, used in full acoustic mode were as good as a normal Yamaha upright in acoustic mode for me. Nice. Loved the feel of their upright's plastic sharps and naturals. I briefly considered renting for my boy. I am quite picky about feel. However in silent mode they felt slightly dead just like my old digital Roland.

The new Roland digital grand felt nicer than the Yamaha Avant grand, nicer touch than a Yam upright in silent mode, though I wouzldn't prefer it. There is definitely something lost through in the touch if the hammers don't hit real strings.

I have now come full circle. Pleased I haven't had a £2k silent system installed on my baby grand. Looking back the most productive practise system I had was a Yamaha PSR, super light, none weighted, not quite full size stye keyboard, ironing board as stand, not even velocity sensitive. It could go everywhere unnoticed, and it only took a week to adjust back to a proper piano.

My answer would be a $500 acoustic piano of Craigslist. Be sure to visit at least 10 pianos first. 
Plus some $100 plastic go anywhere Yamaha keyboard, practise and imagine. I'm sure you can imagine what to do with the other $2000.

[jimbo320]

Thanks for all that info John,
All of my keyboards are either digital or synths. I just was saying that you should try a Yamaha C5.
It's a stage digital with wood keys and both the sound and feel is awesome. I don't want to be a name dropper but it has amazed a lot of friends.
I have one stand with a CP5 and a DGX640 on top and another stand with a PSR and a Micron ontop and Behringer and Leslie amps.
A friend has a C5 acoustic grand and I love playing on it but I carry my equipment to gigs so an acoustic is out. But thanks for the chat...

[_achilles_]

I'll definitely try out a C5 before making a decision. I also will be trying out a Kawai sometime soon.

[pianoplayjl]

Try the Kawaii es6. I played on it at school and obviously it sounds not bad. The only thing I don't like about it is the touch is a tad too heavy for my liking. The tone is good. The ES6 is not suitable for fast pieces because it intereferes with the playing unless you ahve strong fingers.

JL

[_achilles_]

I went for the Kawai CA63, it's action is amazing, I feel like it is way above the Roland HP305. When you press down slowly you can actually feel that you're moving a hammer up and down, there's the added momentum that is just amazing to feel when playing. Not to mention the keys just suck my fingers into them.. I was just touching the keys to see what they feel like and before I even realized it (literally) I had started improvising random music.

Here are some pics:

[pianoplayjl]

Nice! I can see that you tested the weight of touch of the digital piano. Looks like Kawaii is the most popular digital piano brand. I see this everywhere! Good on you for buying the digital piano. 

JL

[bengoodwin]

Hey
I would say that the best deal on how the digital piano sounds keeping with lowest cost would be a nord piano 88, in my opinion. they keep adding great grand piano sounds for free to the webpage and i can listen to the piano sound all day and never hate it. which says a lot. i think every other digital piano i have played annoys me after 24 hours except for this one and maybe the roland V piano, but that costs a lot more.

the only draw back is you have to have a set of speakers or a keyboard amp to go with the nord, i would recommend a roland KC350 or less for that purpose. amazing amazing quality sound out of roland amps.

[lhorwinkle]

There are many pianos in the under $3000 range. In that range ...

The current Yamaha consoles range from the CLP440 (a bit under $3000) down to the YDP141 (around $1000).

The Kawai CA63 and CA93 are perhaps better (though the latter might be above the $3000 limit). Kawai also has a CL-series and CN-series at lower prices.

Roland has the HP-series, including the expensive HP307 (above your limit), and several lower priced HP-series units. I don't much like them, though. Yamaha has better sound and action. So does Kawai.

None of these pianos will sound as good as a proper grand piano (though they sound better than many cheap upright pianos).

To get better sound, you can connect any piano keyboard or console to a PC, and run a piano library software (such as Ivory or Galaxy). The latter will produce the sound, substituting for the sounds produced by the digital piano. Just add headphones or speakers.

The sound will GREATLY exceed anything you can get in an under-$3000 digital piano. To get any better you have to buy a Vpiano from Roland at $6000 (though many people don't seem to like the sound) or a Yamaha Avant Grand N1, N2, or N3 (ranging from $8000 to $15000).

Scratch those ... they're WAY above your price limit. So ... I recommend:
- Pick a form factor. Do you need a console, or a bare/slab keyboard?
- Try some of them. Decide which one has the best key-feel.
- Add a laptop computer ($500-$700), sound card,($100-$200), piano library software ($150 or less). Total: $750 - $1050). Possibly add speakers/amplifiers ($100 and up).

With this arrangement, you could choose any piano for under $2000, add the outboard equipment, and still come in under $3000.

[kingston2013]

You'll find more information on this on BestDigitalPiano.

[drewp]

I agree that Yamaha C5 is a convincing alternative to the real thing. I am also very impressed by the Yamaha strings sounds.

While a real piano is indeed superior, there are lots of reasons why a modern-day digital piano can be a good choice. We're conditioned by experience to trust our eyes more than our ears and we often don't appreciate the sound of the incredible digital pianos because they don't look like a "real" piano. But playing around with a C5 recently has swayed me and I really love these things now.