Beethoven Sonata Op. 14 #1 Rhythm Question

[brogers70]

In the last movement of this sonata, starting around measure 105, the rondo theme returns over the normal triplet accompaniment except the right hand is delayed a half a beat relative to the accompaniment. It creates a sort of 2 against 3 polyrhythm. Normally I don't find that sort of rhythm terribly hard, but I need suggestions for practicing this bit.

I've tried (1) playing it very slowly and carefully in time - no problem there. (2) Playing it very fast with the left hand played as blocked quarter note chords rather than triplets - again no problem. But when I try to play it as written at tempo the melody notes keep slipping so that they end up simultaneous with the third triplet of each beat rather than where they belong between the second and the third. It's a subtle problem, but it takes away the cool effect of the polyrhythm. For the moment I'm just trying to work the tempo up gradually, but I'd appreciate any suggestions as to how to work on this from anyone who had a similar problem.

[megadodd]

I'm not familiar with the sheets of the Sonata, but I can tell you this.
When working on any piece with a substantial amount of strange rythms I first of all, work out what rythm it is-
Then I make it into a really easy excercise, not the way the composer wrote it.
Just a C major scale and a C major chord arpegiated up and down, up and down. With the rythm I have to work on.
Untill I get that in my head, how it sounds and how it feels.

After this, get into the piece again. Play it quite slowly, at a manageable tempo atleast.
Remember how it felt to play the excercise and try it out.
If that dosn't work try to add notes, that will make it easier- not many, but in a few spots. While practicing add these notes play it untill you got it. Take them off one by one, and after a concentrated while you should have it.

M.D

[faulty_damper]

Coordination is a result of slow movement practice.  Speed is a result of fast movement practice.  If you don't have the coordination, you won't have the coordination at speed.

How may repetitions have you done slowly?  If you're still having trouble, then you have not repeated it enough.

[brogers70]

Coordination is a result of slow movement practice.  Speed is a result of fast movement practice.  If you don't have the coordination, you won't have the coordination at speed.

How may repetitions have you done slowly?  If you're still having trouble, then you have not repeated it enough.

Very many repetitions. Slow is no problem at all. Coordination is fine. What seems to have worked in the last couple of days is just jumping to a very fast tempo. Probably, all the slow work set me up for the improvement, but what really did the trick was just going for it at speed. For some reason the problem was specific to this piece. Other cross rhythms in fast tempi haven't caused me anywhere near the trouble this passage did.