Kemble Conundrum

[mkr237]

Hi,

I'm close to buying my first acoustic piano and I'm currently deciding between a Kemble K121CL and the more expensive Kemble Conservatoire.  Clearly the later is the superior instrument and (to my ear at least) produces a deeper, rounder more powerful tone.  However, in my local shop the one they have is one of the last British made models whereas the K121 is from Asia.

My question is...  how much of the difference I'm hearing is due to the specification and how much is due to the different and/or inferior Asian build quality?  Ultimately, I'll be ordering a 'silent' version and having it delivered 'blind' from the factory so I'm trying to get as much information as possible before making the decision.

Has anyone had experience of these two models in their British and Asian incarnations?  Are there any other factors I should be aware of?

-m

[john90]

I would actually wait until you have tried an Asian one with a silent system. Pianos vary a lot between instruments of the same type. I actually think it is unfair of the dealer to put you in this position.

[bleicher]

I agree with John90. Even the most expensive concert grands vary a lot within the same make and model and it's unfair to have to choose a piano you've not tried yet.

[willvenables]

Kembles are now made in the Jakarta, Indonesia factory - by Yamaha. The UK-built Kembles from cirxa 1995-2009 were made in Milton Keynes, UK at the Kemble factory. But... Yamaha purchased controlling share of the Kemble factory and had their European-market pianos made there. The factory was vastly upgraded to Yamaha's legendary precision standards. I toured the factory in 2003 and it was very 'Japanesque'... All the components in a Yamaha or Kemble piano made in that factory during this period are from Yamaha - with the exception of the soundboards which were 'Strunz' Bavarian spruce. The only Kemble element of the piano is the cabinet styling plus additional voicing in the factory prior to release to the trade to ensure the tone is mellow, where Yamaha branded models would leave brighter... but this is technician time, not design/material/build difference. We stopped stocking Kemble pianos in 2004 as we found it confusing alongside Yamaha... where aside from the cabinet styling, there is no fundamental difference - at all.

The move to Jakarta for European series Yamahas and Kemble branded pianos, was needed as the factory was not making enough profit and the Jakarta factory had proved itself in the Yamaha B1, B2 and B3 uprights, the Yamaha GB1K baby grand production - including silent and Disklavier (DGB1K) variants. Dare I say it, if there is any difference, Jakarta has a more consistent output and as of yet, zero cabinet defects. The factory voicing is definitely superior - not so much the amount brilliance reduction, but the method used and the uniformity. The cabinet finishing is excellent.

The Conservatoire is the equivalent to the UK-built Yamaha PX124NT/PX124G (no longer in production). Hype aside - this is a K121 in a bigger cabinet. The keyboard is higher, because the  base of the piano is raised. Open the bottom door and you will see a gap of approx. 3cm between the floor of the piano case and the frame/soundboard. If you prefer the appearance, then there is a difference... the tone is only very slightly fuller as a result of thicker side panels (approx. 20% thicker than most other pianos). There is no other difference. The K121 is 121cm and the Conservatoire is 124cm.

Should you be considering a Yamaha? Yes. The P121 is also made in the Jakarta factory and too has the Strunz Bavarian spruce soundboard. These pianos collectively are based on the Yamaha U1. The frame, soundboard profile, bridge, soundboard ribs, backposts, action, keyboard, hammers and dampers are the same. Yes, it is subjective, but only when there are actual differences that someone can prefer... in this case - i find the product range highly confusing the customer and have to stress that if all 4 pianos in question were from the same factory, lined up against the same wall with no acoustic variance in the positioning in the room and 1 sole technician prepared them precisely uniformly, you would choose the one you prefered the look of and price of. The Conservatoire should have a slightly fuller bass/tenor owing solely to the cabinet thickness but also, there will be a difference in keyboard height to factor in (more/less comfortable). All are very good instruments.

[pianoplayjl]

You say that the Kemble conservertoire is made in Britain? I'd buy that if I were you because not only is it European, but you say it procues a deeper, rounder and more powerful sound. I notice in my very limited piano brand knowledge that European made pianos are more expensive yet higher in quality. Ultimately you choose the piano.

JL

[mkr237]

Many thanks for your excellent response Will...  most interesting.

To be fair to the dealer, he's not putting me under any pressure at all...  it's simply a case of not being able to find anywhere that holds exactly what I want (i.e. a silent Conservatoire).  For that reason I'd come to conclusion that I was going to have to buy something blind.

As it happens, I'm going to have a look at a used Kawai AT22 later which is a fraction of the price...  I'm not expecting much but you never know...

Failing that and in light of what you've said, I may give Yamaha another look...  Indeed, I may even come down to your showroom now ;-)

Thanks again,
-m

[willvenables]

You say that the Kemble conservertoire is made in Britain? I'd buy that if I were you because not only is it European, but you say it procues a deeper, rounder and more powerful sound. I notice in my very limited piano brand knowledge that European made pianos are more expensive yet higher in quality. Ultimately you choose the piano.

JL

The Conservatoire and the Yamaha PX124 were made in the UK. In 2009 the UK factory closed. The Conservatoire is still made to the same spec with the same materials, but in the Jakarta factory - by Yamaha. Technically, as the UK factory was under operation control by Yamaha, and used entirely Yamaha design/parts then it wasn't really a 'Kemble' but a Yamaha-Kemble UK built Yamaha or Kemble branded piano - always based entirely on a Yamaha Japan equivalent model. Having prep'd many new Yamaha models built in Jakarta since UK production, I can say that there is certainly no compromise in the piano having been built there versus UK.

Building a piano in Europe does not suddenly change the piano's character or quality. The design, material selection, build, finishing and preparation are what makes a piano what it is - not 'where' it is made. I have absolutely no hesitation in recommending a Kemble Conservatoire built in Indonesia. I don't sell Kembles, for reasons I have already explained, but if Yamaha made the PX124 then I too would recommend that also as it would be the same piano in every respect.

Many thanks for your excellent response Will...  most interesting.

To be fair to the dealer, he's not putting me under any pressure at all...  it's simply a case of not being able to find anywhere that holds exactly what I want (i.e. a silent Conservatoire).  For that reason I'd come to conclusion that I was going to have to buy something blind.

As it happens, I'm going to have a look at a used Kawai AT22 later which is a fraction of the price...  I'm not expecting much but you never know...

Failing that and in light of what you've said, I may give Yamaha another look...  Indeed, I may even come down to your showroom now ;-)

Thanks again,
-m

It is very standard to 'order' a Silent piano, as Yamaha offer the silent as an option on pretty much every piano they make, so it is highly unlikely that a dealer is going to have every piano you may like in both standard and silent types... it is very much like choosing a model of piano based on what you have tried, but ordering in a different finish. What is important is that the model you try in the showroom is accurately representative of the piano you will receive. By having an in-house technician who was the very same tech. that prepared the showroom piano you liked also prepare the one you order when it comes in, plus you have the agreement to play and 'approve' that piano when it is there, after being prep'd and before you take delivery - there is very little risk. With a silent piano, however, you do need to try a piano with the same system to be sure you are happy with the system and how the touch is slightly different (earlier set off regulation).

You are very welcome here.. but I am not wanting to hijack your dealings elsewhere!