tone-deaf?

[birba]

HELP!  I began teaching a very bright 10 year-old girl a few months ago.  She LOVES music.  She has sat through Bach, Beethoven, Gershwin, Verdi, Puccini - enthralled with the artists and the music they were making.  She's very bright and sort of difficult to cope with at times.  Bare in mind that I haven't taught kids for 30 years.  It's sort of a first for me.  She's the daughter of the lady who keeps our house, and I've even decided to give her my piano that I bought when I came here to Italy 40 years ago.  What's worrying me is she might be tone-deaf.  And I don't get it.  because I tested her ear a few times having her turn her back to me and she recognized the difference between the notes and could pick them out.  And this is only after a few lessons.  But when I get her to sing after me, she can't pick up the note I'm singing or playing.  that is, she'll get it right for two times, and then zilch.  I'll sing the note, play it, and she sings a 5th below.  I mimic with my face and hands "up up up!" as I sing the note and she just doesn't get it.  When she sings a common children's song here in Italy, she'll sing it the way she feels it, if you get my gist.  It has no relation to the real thing.  In fact, a "song" for her is more the words then the tune.  What do I do?!  I think it's very important for a child to be able to sing along with the music.  Today, I tried doing this:   I let her sing ME a note.  Then I sang that note followed by a note a second higher.  Like C -D.  But she couldn't even repeat the first note she sang me.  Am I making any sense?  Am I a disaster?  I really think I wasn't cut out for this.  Advice, please!!!!!!!!

[pianowolfi]

haha I can relate  

Welcome to the world of teaching children

That's not at all unusual

No she's for sure not tone deaf!

But she might have felt tested and as soon as she spots something like this, she might have tended to tense up inside and she might have only been able to think "what the heck, what the heck does that teacher expect from me now...I need to figure it out, for god's sake, I need to make no mistake, omg.." and so on, and of course, nothing works anymore!

The solution: you might want to lead her indirectly! No "tests" of single pitches or melodies, or singing along as far it requires a sort of "being exposed"-feeling! No tests at all, except those tests who seem very fun to them anyway! I have given up on those sort of "feeling-exposed-tests"(aka feeling under pressure) years, even decades ago, as they're worth exactly nothing!! You will anyway have a true impression of the student after a few lessons, without any "tests"

Try to get her into some sort of "flow", be it through adressing her through one of her favorite songs or through something she can already play, or some games on the keys, or whatever. To fit the exact pitch at singing along may take a while, and you have to just ignore if she's out of tune, or singing a fourth below or above or whatever. In all probability she IS able to follow the melody in some sort of way, and that's where you have to chime in, and support her!

After all it's about partnership and you will have to find the common level where the partnership of your two individuals is possible

P.S. of course later on you might get into a situation where you need to prepare a student for "being-exposed-tests" but as you will in all probability have guided such a student for years already, you might find also the way to prepare him for those, according to your experience and partnership with that particular student.

[pianowolfi]

Another point:

In fact, a "song" for her is more the words then the tune.

Actually there IS something to this (but of course not the only thing), as we pianists are used to only hear and play pitches! But the words add overtones (harmonics) to a melody, and it IS in fact not the same if you sing Aaaaa or Oooo or Eeee on the note g4, for instance! We as pianists have just learned to ignore the overtones of the respective wovels and listen only to the mere pitch!

[birba]

Thankyou so much!!!!  You've allayed my fears, more or less.  I'll do as you say.  I think I'll just hold off on this "ear-training" and let things come naturally.  she's such a joy to teach and I would hate for her to be turned off by this stuff!

[ted]

Wolfi is a truly remarkable musician, and a truly broadminded human being who I have come to admire, quite unlike anyone else I know trained in the "old school". He is right. Let her go. Let her be the musical person she is meant to be. Teach her all the technical stuff by all means, it is all good background, but in the end does it matter ?  No, of course not. What matters is that you can get out the music that is in her. In short, bypass all this trivia and get on to bringing out the music which she has in her genes. It is what matters in the and.

To put it succinctly and somewhat crudely, I didn't know whether I was bored or screwed musically at ten. I think we tend to get too serious about this stuff.

You say she is a joy to teach. Come on now, does anything else really matter ? I don't think so.

[keypeg]

Singing is not just about hearing a tone.  It also involves producing that tone.  So it is possible for her to hear it but not be able to produce it with her voice.  If you played a note with her back turned, would she be able to find that note on the piano by the sound of it?  I wonder if some singing teachers have some ideas on how to develop singing.

[cjp_piano]

Many of my students don't sing the right pitches right off the bat, I just ignore that aspect and keep doing it. I sing with them and have fun, and eventually 99% of the time, their pitch improves drastically with time.

There's really no such thing as "tone deaf" only "deaf."  If she's not deaf, then she can do it.

As keypeg said, there's also the part of PRODUCING the sound, not just hearing it.

I would also have her do sirens and things that use a wide range of the voice. Don't worry about specific pitches, just cover a wide range. Imitate a squeaky mouse, then imitate the Darth Vader March or something.

[birba]

I can't tell you how much help this discussion has been for me!  This is what I was looking for, professional advice.