Mozart articulation

[louwtjie]

If a phrase mark or a slur ends on the penultimate note, does it mean you are to break before playing the last note or should you just ignore it and play to the end of the phrase as you would have if the mark went right to the end?

also do notes without phrase marks really mean that they should be played slightly non legato? 

[birba]

For example?  It depends a lot on the edition you're using.  Do you have the Henle?  And what particular sonata or variations are you referring to?

[keyboardclass]

Mozart's music is not legato unless marked.  Phrase marks rarely extend over the bar but it's understood as if they do.  Your phrase mark could be inaccurate.

[cjp_piano]

If a phrase mark or a slur ends on the penultimate note, does it mean you are to break before playing the last note or should you just ignore it and play to the end of the phrase as you would have if the mark went right to the end?

also do notes without phrase marks really mean that they should be played slightly non legato? 

If Mozart wrote the phrase mark, he meant it specifically, so YES, you break before the last note.

Notes without phrase marks are non legato, except, of course, for really fast notes!

[birba]

I don't agree at all.  Just because there's a phrase mark missing does not mean to play the notes non-legato.  There's no hard and fast rule here.  For example the running notes in bars 28-29 and 35-36 in the first movement of K.310 have a slurs but the rest of them don't.  Does that mean the touch changes?  I don't think so.  the analagous passage in bars 40-41 only has a slur over the first measure.  Why?  Look at the famous c major "easy" sonata.  There are no slurs whatsoever.  Does that mean it's played non-legato?  The opening theme in K. 332 - there are slurs over every two notes.  But I certainly wouldn't break the line by lifting the hand after each slur.  I think every case has to be analyzed as a case unto itself.  The c minor fantasy is pretty much specific in the phrasing.  But look at the d minor fantasy.  The opening adagio has no slurs or phrase marks.  But it's generally played with a slur from the f to the g, and then non legato down to the c#.  I think Mozart's indications are definitely the starting point from which to create one's interpretations, but from there on you must use common sense and musical sensibility.

[cjp_piano]

Yes, I would suppose it would be best to look at the specific example that the OP was referring to.

But in general, I was saying if he wrote a slur, that means legato! Is that not correct?

[birba]

Of course!  I was refering to the statement made about notes without slurs being non-legato and mozart's music is not legato unless marked.

[cjp_piano]

Well if they aren't fast notes, then yes, they are non legato, right?

[pianoplayjl]

also do notes without phrase marks really mean that they should be played slightly non legato? 

I don't think so unless they are specified in the music. Phrases are just there for the shaping of notes and playing notes smoothly.

JL

[birba]

Well if they aren't fast notes, then yes, they are non legato, right?

No. Just because he didn't put a slur sign over a group of notes doesn't mean they should be played non legato.  You really have to look at each specific musical example.

[keyboardclass]

I don't think so unless they are specified in the music. Phrases are just there for the shaping of notes and playing notes smoothly.

In Mozart's day phrase marks were equavilant to slurs.  The phrase marks we know today are a Romantic invention.  You can always read Leopold Mozart's book on playing the violin downloadable from the web.

[pianoplayjl]

In Mozart's day phrase marks were equavilant to slurs.  The phrase marks we know today are a Romantic invention.  You can always read Leopold Mozart's book on playing the violin downloadable from the web.

Thnx for the info KClass. I saw some phrase marks in Beethoven's music but probably it is later than the Mozart era and that Beethoven laid the foundations for Romantic music. I wasn't able to distinguish between slurs and phrases until I read your info.

JL

[cjp_piano]

I'm thinking of, for example, the Mozart Minuet in F. It has eighth eighth quarter, quarter, etc. He slurs the first 3 notes, leaving the quarters detached. You wouldn't play it all smooth, there would be no feel of the minuet!