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Topic: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?  (Read 8086 times)

Offline carlnmtka

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Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
on: December 06, 2011, 10:21:12 PM
Listening to the recordings of pianists who had one foot in the 19th century, you often hear works where the music the left hand is playing is between the beats of the music played by the right, off set. This technique brings to live many classical and romantic works, for example Cortot's playing of Chopin's Impromptu No. 3--it is far from the mauldin performance normally heard, which probably explains why it is the least popular. Importantly, the second voice, the cello-like lead in the trio has a place throughout most of the piece, providing quite a wonderful interaction lacking when both hands are playing on the same beat.
What is the term for this technique, which was common from the days of the harpsicord and early piano into the early days of the pianoforte?

Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 11:58:31 PM
I know it didn't exist back then: syncopation?
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline justharmony

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #2 on: December 07, 2011, 09:20:09 AM
Couple of things - Just to clarify, saying that "off-beat" left hand playing originated in earlier music is a bit of an oversimplication of stylistic aspects of early keyboard music.  But that's another topic. :)

In regards to playing Chopin, Chopin himself stated (or so it's said - can provide quote and reference if anyone's interested) that it is not the left hand that should be playing with such freedom, but the right.  The left hand was to be the anchor and the steady foundation overwhich the right could blossom and sing.  As far as what this specific technique is called, I can't say I know. 

M.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 09:34:15 AM
That's called rubato.

Offline justharmony

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 09:40:05 AM
Rubato would be when both hands - not just one - are exercising some freedom with tempo, no? A lot of people play Chopin this way, but one could argue that's not the way Chopin intended it to be played.
M.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 09:41:57 AM
That's of course another aspect of rubato. But I have read that Chopin used to do exactly what you describe and that this was understood as a form of rubato back then.

Offline zolaxi

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 10:53:33 AM
I know it didn't exist back then: syncopation?

Been around since middle ages!

Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 10:54:32 AM
What I meant was that syncopation was not as common back then.
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline carlnmtka

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Re: Playing with off-beat left hand, what's it called?
Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 11:45:58 PM
I know it didn't exist back then: syncopation?

Maybe a better way of saying it is that the left-hand accompaniment follows the beat, lags a bit. The notes played by the two hands could be quavers and crochets, so it's not really syncopation. The idea behind the technique is to differentiate the two voices / melodies being played by each of the hands.

I thought the term was something like "broken hands," but that just doesn't sound right.
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