Playing cross/polyrhythms.

[chopinlover96]

Does anyone have an tips on learning/playing crossrhythms. I can do tripleted quavers over normal quavers but that is about it. 

[landru]

I think you'll find a lot of tips from searching the forums as this is a very familiar problem.

Here are the things that helped me.

• Clapping/tapping the polyrhythm away from the piano, like waiting for the bus or in traffic
• Play separate hands at and above performance tempo first
• Put hands together at an incredibly slow tempo, like Tai Chi! - to make sure you know which hand hits a key before the other
• Hands together, break it up into single measures or parts of measures to get the basic "core" movement down
• Once you can play it slow - use the metronome to beat on the beats where the hands are together

I've used these methods to advance from initial sheer bewilderment to it being relatively old hat and it just comes almost naturally when I come across polyrhythms in a score. Good luck!

[keyboardkat]

I think you'll find a lot of tips from searching the forums as this is a very familiar problem.

Here are the things that helped me.

• Clapping/tapping the polyrhythm away from the piano, like waiting for the bus or in traffic
• Play separate hands at and above performance tempo first
• Put hands together at an incredibly slow tempo, like Tai Chi! - to make sure you know which hand hits a key before the other
• Hands together, break it up into single measures or parts of measures to get the basic "core" movement down
• Once you can play it slow - use the metronome to beat on the beats where the hands are together

I like all your suggestions except for that bit about clapping while waiting for the bus.   Do you really want them to call an ambulance for you?   At the very least, other passengers might move away from you, lest they catch whatever it is that you have.

[justharmony]

Two against three is a start.  Then do 3 against 4 (think/say, "not very difficult" for a place to start). As for the complex runs and such that I think you're really getting at, I think it helps to not think of them in terms of specific rhythms, but rather as a unit, almost:  a run, not a series of 7 against whatever in the left hand.  I agree with practicing each hand enough to be able to do each with ease by itself, and then try to combine them.

Good luck!

JH

[jtguru]

Before even thinking about putting the hands together, you should have each individual hand's part mastered to the point that you could almost play it in your sleep. I always make sure I can play each hand cleanly at a tempo significantly higher than the goal, unless goal tempo is too fast to do so. This way when I am trying to put the hands together, I can do it right around goal tempo straight away without having to worry at all about the movements each hand is making.

I never play a polyrhythm hands together slowly until I have already been playing it relatively quickly. For me at least, if I start to play the polyrhythm very slowly without already having the "feel" of the rhythm down, my brain will start to overthink it and try to figure out, mathematically, exactly where each note should go.

I virtually never touch a metronome, even when working with polyrhythms.
You may be working with several beats (have several beats of each separate hand mastered), but do not try to worry about the perfectness of the whole passage all at once; to do this, you will start to overthink it, start to make mistakes in the notes themselves (disregarding rhythm), or both.

Adjust your timing one beat at a time. I am assuming (hoping   ) that you don't have to give large focus to what note each hand plays on the first beat of the polyrhythm section, so start by focusing on the second beat.  Look at what note each hand should play on the second beat. Start playing through the passage, hands together. If you have too much difficulty doing this even without worrying about the rhythm, then you do not have hands separate mastered. When HS is properly mastered, the only difficulty of HT is coordinating rhythm; playing the notes themselves without complete regard to rhythm should be easy (and I mean this in general, not just with polyrhythm passages).

When you start to play this HT, focus on which note each hand should play right on the second beat. Take note of how close your hands were when you got to what should be the second beat, and notice which hand is going too fast or slow. Play through a second time, again focusing on that second beat, trying to adjust your playing accordingly from what you did the first time. Keep repeating and making adjustments to the speed of one hand until your hands both reach the correct second-beat note at the same time.

With that much mastered, repeat the same process for the third beat, and so on. You are adjusting and fine-tuning your rhythmic coordination one note at a time, until you have the passage in question mastered. This process will get very easy and quick as you progress through the piece and gain more experience with polyrhythms in general.

[j_menz]

The best way to play polyrhythms is to learn to think about the two (or more) bits seperately at once.

All the mathematical solutions break down once the numbers get too high (eg, in a 5 v 7 polyrhythm, you need to count to 35 - not going to  happen).

The seperate hands thing is good advice, but you'll soon come across polyrhythms in the one hand (given your affection for Schubert).

Try and concentrate on the seperate lines of music, hearing them at once but distinctly.

A bit of reasonably complex counterpoint will help.  A little Bach is good for most ailments