Piano Forum

You sir are an idiot.

no u.  ohhhhhhhhh burnz0rz!

Why is talking about musicality and difficulty with interpretation bullshit?

I dunno.  Let's find out together.

The 4th is universally regarded as being the most difficult, as to truly master it, requires a great amount of musical maturity, something that is not as important in the more virtuoso works of Chopin's youth such as Ballades 1 and 2.

Excuse me, but I'm confused.  The Ballade No. 4 is the most technically difficult one.  Ballade No. 4 is the virtuoso work, in comparison to Nos. 1 and 2.  So there's that.

Having "musical maturity" is not a "difficulty."  It's not something that one "overcomes" while working on a "maturity-related difficult(??)" piece.  It is a state that a pianist is in.  One either does or does not understand the piece of music.  Also, having "musical maturity" is meaningless.  Understanding the piece well enough to be aware of the nuances of one's interpretation is what has value.  What you mean to say is, "this person agrees with me, or some people I arbitrarily choose, when it comes to the interpretation of the work, one which a group of people have decided is "mature" due to it falling under this random, strict set of guidelines arbitrarily laid out for different pieces, composers and eras which we, the interpretation police, then decide is or is not mature, based on our checklist we have.  Oh, and that checklist seems to change depending on what country you're playing in, and what decade it is."  That has nothing to do with "musical maturity."  I don't think people would say that Kissin, Lang Lang or Hamelin are "musically mature" by the garbage definition you use; if somebody wanted to bash those pianists, that's probably the first little turdnugget they'd talk about.  "Oh, he's sooo immature.  He played that passage at 142, when the maturity police deigned almost three years ago that 135 is the max.  Sooo immature."  I'm not sure if the pretentious douche-bag accent is coming through in the writing.  But here's me telling you that it's there.  I don't like Hamelin, Kissin or Lang Lang, but they are "mature," in the only sense that actually matters: they understand enough to get the piece to sound exactly the way they want it to, and they can tell when that isn't happening.  What it is that they "want it to sound like" is, as I said earlier, total, subjective BS.  It is blatantly so.

The 4th Ballade also presents, in my opinion, one of the greatest tests of voicing and phrasing in all of Chopin's works.

You honestly don't play the piano, do you?  I'm serious.  Bringing out a voice in a piece is technique.  It is something that is taught.  Sure it can sometimes be a bit tricky to see which you want to emphasize, but any competent piano teacher can simply point to a series of notes and say, "those ones."  It's not like Roslavets.  It's just Chopin.  You're not doing number theory to figure this stuff out; you really like to whine and make this stuff sound harder than it is.  I bet your imaginary piano teacher just loves you.  Anyone with an ear can figure that sort of stuff out, given enough time, and that falls into my definition of maturity.

By the way, can you show us some of these passages that you think are the most difficult, in terms of phrasing and voicing?  I'd really like to see what your opinion on the matter is.  Just give us some measure numbers; you've played the piece, so I'm sure it won't take you too long to recall.  Also, I couldn't help but notice something in your post.  "In my opinion."  That means, "subjective."

A piece all to often performed badly due to the players playing the work without the required sensitivity and maturity. Another point to consider is the nature of the 4th Ballade. This is arguably Chopin's most intimate and tender composition and to convey these emotions to the listener requires a profound level of maturity.

The required sensitivity?  Is there a lightness of touch that you require in a performance?  Because that's also technique.  As well, maybe I don't personally like a light touch in the piece.  Seems like it's subjective, after all!  Damn, you're on a roll with being wrong.  Define "sensitivity" quantitatively, lest it be more of that "subjective bullshit."  Go ahead and define what "tenderness" and "intimate" mean in terms of piano-produced sound.  Quantitatively.  Because, as you claim, it's not subjective.  This is empirical stuff, according to you.  If you're using these terms, then you know what they mean.  And if they're not being used subjectively, then they're being used objectively.  So tell us what they mean.  Not what they mean to you.  What they mean objectively, i.e. what their rigid definition is, in the context of performance of music.  Could you link me to some scientific studies about harmonic analysis on tenderness and intimation?

What about "profound"?  Is this a subjective or objective term?  Must be objective, since you're arguing with me about how I said everything that would come out of your mouth is subjective.  So can you please give me a cut-off for profound?  like, explain it to me.  Is it a hierarchical system?  What's directly beneath "profound" and what's directly above it, assuming anything?  Is there a "super-profound"?  Or is it just "profound" and "not profound"?  Sort of binary.  Like, there isn't an "almost profound"?

All these points fall under musicality, and for you to dismiss it as "bullshit" only seeks to make yourself look like an idiot.

I just made your "bullshit" make you look like an idiot.

Lastly, the double note section at the end of Ballade No 2, is not as technically difficult as the coda in Ballade No 1. So I fail to see why you rank the difficulty the way you do. In fact I would wager few professionals consider No 2, more technically demanding than No 1.

You would lose money on that one, but considering the fact that you're obviously a child, and therefore don't have a bank account, it's not worth taking your bet, because I'm too lazy for anything besides paypal.  You should spend the money on a helmet, instead.  Better yet, a vasectomy.