Do I need to follow the fingering exactly?

[samthegreat4]

He people,

I've got a question I've been walking around for quite some time with.
So, for example I'm going through this piece right now:
https://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/8/8e/IMSLP00001-Beethoven__L.v._-_Piano_Sonata_01.pdf

Some fingerings just feel unnatural, others do help me. Like mostly in fast runs the fingerings really help me because of my lack in technical skill (never had classical piano lessons). So like I said: in technical/fast/scale-runs the only way for me is to really stick to the fingering prescribed or to think of something myself and mostly I do stick to the fingering on the sheet if there is any. In general I also stick to all the other fingerings throughout the piece.

But as I said: some of them feel unnatural or unnecessarily hard with a better alternative for my hands. So I just stick to the fingerings given ''hardcore'' or should I also let room in for fingerings of my own?

For example: In the Adagio - the ''2'' and ''5'' in the right hand on the 2nd beat in measure no. 4. I'd have played it with my thumb ''1'' and ''4'' and the next beat also ''1'' and ''4''.

Cheers,

Sam

[pianoplayjl]

You don't have to follow the fingerings exactly. They are there as a guide and are usually what the editor thinks. It's not a rule to follow them because some are just unorthodox or don't work out for me IMO. If you can find more convenient fingering go for it. But please check because sometimes fingerings are there for a purpose and maybe the best option out of many good combos. You can always experiment.

JL

[samthegreat4]

You don't have to follow the fingerings exactly. They are there as a guide and are usually what the editor thinks. It's not a rule to follow them because some are just unorthodox or don't work out for me IMO. If you can find more convenient fingering go for it. But please check because sometimes fingerings are there for a purpose and maybe the best option out of many good combos. You can always experiment.

JL

Thanks for the reply.
The problem is that: if I just practice with those given fingerings long enough (just slam them into my head) I'll start to use them automatically, even if the given ones aren't optimal for me. So how can I determine if I should use them or use my own? I mean: those fingerings have been thought about by experts right?

[autodidact]

I mean: those fingerings have been thought about by experts right?

The thing about this is, though, that people's hands are different. Your hand size may be different from that of the person who wrote those fingerings. For example, if your hands are anything close to normal size, most fingerings that Rachmaninoff used and wrote would probably not be very useful for you because his hands were so large.

[samthegreat4]

The thing about this is, though, that people's hands are different. Your hand size may be different from that of the person who wrote those fingerings. For example, if your hands are anything close to normal size, most fingerings that Rachmaninoff used and wrote would probably not be very useful for you because his hands were so large.

Yeah, true. But to take your Rachmaninoff example: the fingerings given are useless, so what do you do then?

[nyiregyhazi]

For example: In the Adagio - the ''2'' and ''5'' in the right hand on the 2nd beat in measure no. 4. I'd have played it with my thumb ''1'' and ''4'' and the next beat also ''1'' and ''4''.

Well, there's nothing to say that the crotchets should not be legato. Using the thumb twice makes an accent on the last beat highly likely. Hand size should not be an issue- considering that it involves spacing out the fingers at a distance of no greater than one letter per finger. So I couldn't personally see any obvious justification for fragmenting it with your fingering.

[samthegreat4]

Well, there's nothing to say that the crotchets should not be legato. Using the thumb twice makes an accent on the last beat highly likely. Hand size should not be an issue- considering that it involves spacing out the fingers at a distance of no greater than one letter per finger. So I couldn't personally see any obvious justification for fragmenting it with your fingering.

Ok, so you're suggesting to just play it like this: 1 - 4 | 2 - 5 | 1 - 4, right ?
Why I asked about this is because my right hand, when I played this bar for the first time, just went like this 1 - 4| 1 - 4 | 1 -4, automatically.

But it's still unclear to me when I shouldn't follow the fingering and when I should. Because like with the above example, you see that my right hand apparently wanted to do something strange by itself without looking at the prescribed fingering.

I then first had to look at the fingering and ''tell'' my hand to not go with its usual way but instead to do it as written on the sheet.

[nyiregyhazi]

Ok, so you're suggesting to just play it like this: 1 - 4 | 2 - 5 | 1 - 4, right ?
Why I asked about this is because my right hand, when I played this bar for the first time, just went like this 1 - 4| 1 - 4 | 1 -4, automatically.

But it's still unclear to me when I shouldn't follow the fingering and when I should. Because like with the above example, you see that my right hand apparently wanted to do something strange by itself without looking at the prescribed fingering.

I then first had to look at the fingering and ''tell'' my hand to not go with its usual way but instead to do it as written on the sheet.

Well, that's the difficult thing. It's very hard to narrow these things down with clarity and the answers are heavily grounded in musical issues. In that case, the music is naturally so fragmented to start with (yet part of a lyrical slow movement) that I think the most natural way to finger is in a way that promotes a longer musical line- not to be going up and down on every beat. It would place too much individual emphasis on the beats.

Broadly speaking, it's very hard to come up with a simple guide for which principles to apply where. In some cases, it's best to cover plenty of notes in a single positions- rather than have to make continual adjustments of the arm. Elsewhere, it might even be good to the very opposite (for example the semiquavers on the first page of the Waldstein can be covered in a single five finger position, but Schnabel advises swapping the the thumb and second finger, in order to force the arm to move around more rather than get stuck in a single place).

[mcdiddy1]

I think the best thing you can do when you are learning a piece for the first time is practice sight reading with both hands( if you can handle it) or hands separate partly so you can discover fingering issues. When I learn a piece, this is one of the first things that I do, as in discover the difficult sections and start developing a fingering plan.  If something does not work for you due to differences of hand silze or poor editing then you should change it immediately. Manym times I will write in some fingerings just to remind me so I can execute a passage quicker rather then recalling what fingering to do. Also you want to beware some fingerings work best at a fast tempo while a slow tempo is much more forgiving of fingering choice so you should experiment with fingers both fast and slow and give the editors fingering a try before creating your own.