Vibrato

[Sketchee]

In Liszt's Sonetto 104 del Petrarca (how do you say 104 in Italian anyway), he has a section marked vibrato. How do you think he intended the to be interpreted?

The same measure is marked stringendo and the increase in speed along with the left hand rhythm gives a good effect but I'm not sure if that's what is meant by the vibrato mark.

[cziffra777]

In Liszt's Sonetto 104 del Petrarca (how do you say 104 in Italian anyway), he has a section marked vibrato. How do you think he intended the to be interpreted?

The same measure is marked stringendo and the increase in speed along with the left hand rhythm gives a good effect but I'm not sure if that's what is meant by the vibrato mark.

I think Liszt literally meant vibrato. I've read that he would wiggle his finger on a key after it was played to achieve a vibrato. I'll leave it to you to decide whether this has any effect or not. It doesn't in my opinion.

BTW I'm learning this piece this semester.

[Sketchee]

Ah.  I'd heard of that kind of vibrato as well but it didn't sound noticably different trying it.  That's what made me wonder if Liszt meant something else. Hmm. Thanks!

[donjuan]

have a listen to Horowitz play it at his moscow concert.  He really achieves true vibrato.  play strongly and passionately- I know the part you are refering to in the piece- and bring out the melody notes above the accompanyment.  Now, if you do it right, the music should shake thunderously.  I find this easier to accomplish on a Grand piano rather than upright.

good luck, that is an excellent piece you are playing.
donjuan

[thracozaag]

I think Liszt literally meant vibrato. I've read that he would wiggle his finger on a key after it was played to achieve a vibrato. I'll leave it to you to decide whether this has any effect or not. It doesn't in my opinion.

BTW I'm learning this piece this semester.

 You can achieve a vibrato effect with the pedal, and by vibrating your finger--on a clavichord, heh.

koji (STSD)

[donjuan]

 You can achieve a vibrato effect with the pedal, and by vibrating your finger--on a clavichord, heh.

koji (STSD)

Yeah, I read about those old box grands before mozart's time- the ones with really quiet tones- you could vary the sound by wiggling your finger while holding the key down.  It wont work on modern pianos though...

someone should design one that can!!

[mtmccarthy]

Hm... I have always thought that any significant vibrato would be impossible on a modern grand, just because of the nature of the instrument. I have heard elsewhere that it is possible on some pianos, too. How would this be physically possible?

Or, would you just be vibrating the piano so rigorously that the entire thing shakes, resulting in an effect on the sound? If this is the case, I think I'd have better luck using my left leg to shake it as much as possible - unless the right leg isn't pedalling, in which case, using both would be better. I think I'd look a little funny, doing that in a recital or competition... but hey, people thought Bach was weird because he used his thumb...

(Yes, I was kidding when I wrote that last bit.)

I'd just have to make sure I don't do it so violently that I end up breaking the piano's legs. That sure would be a disaster in a performance.

[donjuan]

Haha!!! wouldnt it be funny if you are trying to hold down a huge chord while shaking the piano violently.  haha- the legs break off and the whole thing crashes to the floor with a dissonant clang, the pianist just stands there scratching his head?


hehheehee

[zhiliang]

I thought that this vibrato thing is all part of the mind?

How does one achieve cresc and dim on just one note? I saw that in the Chopin Piano Concerto No. 1 (2 piano scores)?

Wouldn the vibrato sign means playing it slightly different touch? With the image of the strings vibrato in mind....

Regards,

Zhiliang

[Motrax]

Perhaps this might interest you...

https://www.farid-hajji.net/fun/ge-humidrecital.html  

[donjuan]

Perhaps this might interest you...

https://www.farid-hajji.net/fun/ge-humidrecital.html  

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

I would pay ANYHTING to have been there!!

donjuan

[bernhard]

Yes, it was very funny

Unfortunately it is not true.

https://www.snopes.com/humor/nonsense/piano.htm

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[donjuan]

ohh too bad.. I guess the "two Indian watchmen" thing is a little bit of a stretch..

[Sketchee]

I thought that this vibrato thing is all part of the mind?

How does one achieve cresc and dim on just one note? I saw that in the Chopin Piano Concerto No. 1 (2 piano scores)?

Wouldn the vibrato sign means playing it slightly different touch? With the image of the strings vibrato in mind....

Regards,

Zhiliang

A dim or decresc one one note could probably be done with the pedals.  I haven't come across it or tried but it sounds resonable!  The crescendo would probably be imaginary!

Anyway, the vibrato is something I'll have to play with some more.  I'm probably going to have to think of the notes in a quasi-vibrato and see.  donjuan's suggestions seem reasonable enough.  I guess I'll interpret it in the sense of what the purpose vibrato is on instruments capable of an obvious vibrato?  If this was being performed by an orchestra and the strings had a strong vibrato ... I guess that's the effect what Liszt's wants here.

[Max]

Wouldn't that just be an accent with a decrescendo?

[Motrax]

To give the illusion of cresc./decresc. over the span of a single note, you can use a left-hand accompaniment, if one is available. People will be listening to the melody, regardless of what the accompaniment is doing, so if a crescendo is heard in the lower register, it will have a similar (though not equal) effect as increasing and then decreasing the volume of a single note.

Well, it's a little more complex... it really depends on what accompaniment you have. Some accompaniments won't nicely work for that effect. But 'tis a suggestion.  

[Sketchee]

Wouldn't that just be an accent with a decrescendo?

Yes