Live Performance: Chopin Op 10-9 and Liszt Mephisto Waltz

[can]

On 23rd of December I played Chopin Etude Op 10 No 9 and Liszt Mephisto Waltz in a concert. Your comments are welcome. Thank you.


Mephisto Waltz

[pianoplayjl]

I just want to say that your performance was near perfection. Extraordinary.

[hakki]

Near perfection ?
Are we listening to the same Mephisto recording ?

I couldn't bear listening to the sloppy, rushed and mindless playing after about a minute or two and just had to turn it off.

Hope it wasn't a paid recital.

[can]

thank you for your constructive criticism hakki. That was really helpful for me. I wish you a good life with your art.

[can]

...

[littletune]

Near perfection ?
Are we listening to the same Mephisto recording ?

I couldn't bear listening to the sloppy, rushed and mindless playing after about a minute or two and just had to turn it off.

Hope it wasn't a paid recital.

Wow that was mean!!!  I mean you could have at least said something constructive to help him improve the playing if you didn't like it!! Not everyone here has been playing piano for like 50 or more years like you! some of us are just kids and didn't have more than half a century time to practice like you!!   


Hi Can! I'm sorry you got such a mean comment! I know it would make me feel really bad  I'm 13 too and I'm always afraid someone would say something like that about my playing too... cause I'm not even exactly sure how it would make me feel. I wish I could comment your playing  but I only started learning piano 2 years ago and I don't really know very much about complicated pieces like you're playing... I hope someone else can give you a good comment! Cause I know you can play really well! And not everyone here is so mean!
Happy New Year to you too!  And don't let mean people like that make you feel too bad. I wish you all the best! 

[rachfan]

Hi can,

I enjoyed listening to your Chopin etude 10/9.  If you can play it like that at 13, you'll go much farther in your piano studies and perhaps music will become an even greater part of your life in the future.

I noticed that you removed the Mephisto Waltz.  That one harsh critique, right or wrong, is just that--one. You might want to repost the recording, as others might wish to give you additional and more specific, helpful, and constructive feedback.  So don't be discouraged.  If all of us were put off by a single review, there would be nobody left here posting recordings!  

David        

[can]

Thank you rachfan. OK I'm giving the link again. But before that I must say few words. I posted Mephisto to two boards. It is true that I made no explanations here but I explained its story in detail in the other board. The owner of the "harsh" critique is also a member of the other board. That means he could have known my aim in posting this piece.
I will not enter into a discussion about this.
But I must say that I'm not afraid of harsh critiques. I am demanding critiques to develop myself, and to share opinions. But it must be a critique not infringement like "I hope it wasn't a paid recital".
The story is that, I was asked to play Mephisto Waltz in a concert by many amateurs. Mephisto was not in my mind but I couldn't say no. So I began to study it one month ago and prepared it in a month. After two weeks I posted its early version to other board and demanded criticism. And after the concert I did the same thing. The concert was an amateur one and was not a serious concert. However, I'm also invited to play in an international music festival in April and I'm preparing a program for that. What I have in my mind is that if Mephisto develops well until March, I want to play it in my recitral in April (it is really an important event). So I demanded help from pianists in two boards to criticise my work.
After listening to my performance, first I'm happy with the results (RELATIVELY) for one month of work. I of course criticise myself and I think I know what is not good in my playing. But honestly I'm opening my weak side for criticism. I am not posting a finished work and call people to tell me how good I'm playing. Criticising without telling anything about the piano was unjust and after such a criticism people would probably refuse to listen or listen with prejudices. If someone, who is already a pianist, says "I didn't listen to after a minute", the others probably would not write a critique.

The new link is
https://www.box.com/s/iqlp8yfiate5utmoblr6

[rachfan]

Hi can,

I just happened to think: In your post title, had you written "work in progress" it might have guided listeners more in making comments.

OK, great, I'm glad you reposted.   I listened to your recording but not with the score.  I wish that when I was 13 (a very long time ago), that I could have played that like you.  If this Mephisto Waltz was based on just one month of practice, it's nothing less than remarkable.  But yes, in a sense that is relativistic thinking, as you know.  I suspect that in fact you are your own worst critic.  (I've always found that to be true of myself too--I know when I've played something in an exceptional way, or... if it's not really up to my standard.)

As I listened to this Mephisto, you have a good handle on most of the technical requirements.  You differentiate touch very well and contrast dynamics and effect shadings.  You handle the short cadenzas with very fine and even articulation at velocity.  You demonstrate a fluency with the composer's idiom and specifically as it applies to this music.  You're able to create drama and some beautiful nuances too.  There were a couple of spots where you nearly lost your way in the LH, but the RH was strong enough to preserve continuity.  There were some wrong notes, but with one month of preparation, that is exactly what I would expect.  No matter what the difficulty, you were always able to find a musical solution to it.  Somehow, despite the insufficient practice, you played with obvious confidence and put the music across to the listener.  And in the end, that's what counts.

At this point, and you have several months now before your next performance, you need to polish this up to recital pitch as you know  So take this performance/recording as a snapshot in time, learn from it, mark up the score accordingly, and transfer that learning to your practice techniques to work more intensively on what needs the most polishing.

And don't get discouraged! 

David

[arielpiano]

To the little engine that...
I listened to Mephisto. It obviously needs work, and I totally agree with David's suggestions and with the notion that we don't need annihilating comments. But comments like "near perfection" and "extraordinary" are not very helpful either in preparing you for March-April. In any case, March is a long way off. I would not worry about speed at this point but concentrate on absolute accuracy. The speed will come naturally. Good luck with it.
Ariel

[birba]

I, too, want to compliment you on such fine brilliant work in only a month's (!) time!  You have the right spirit and the tempo is perfect.  So many pianists really play it way too fast.  I just heard a recording by Raymond Lewenthal with whom I studied for a few years a long time ago.  It was very disappointing.  I've never heard it that fast.  Not even Cziffra!  And it was a mess.  It lost all it's rythmic beauty.  I also enjoyed hearing the "ossia".  I think Rubenstein,too, does the original intentions at 395.
You certainly have time to perfect it.  Just a few comments.
At bars 283, bring out the left hand harmonic changes more.
At 339, I think you're playing it too slow.  Liszt says "un poco meno mosso (MA POCO).  It loses the flow and the syncopated melody is lost.
At 478, on the other hand, I feel you played it too fast.  Liszt says "POCO allegretto e rubato".  More rubato and not so agitato.  Liszt says "quieto" in the left hand.
The same goes for bar 551 and on.  Espressivo amoroso!
At 716, begin a little slower and work up with a stringendo like Liszt says.  You begin way too fast, I think.
Those formidable leaps are the most difficult part of the whole piece for me.  You have to throw caution to the wind and just pray you hit the right notes.  You did the right hand very well.  It was the left that was a little messy.  If you can do the right, the left hand will come with a bit more time!  I found the right hand came better when I played 1-octave and not 2-octave.  (The thumb on the lower note, rather then the second finger like most editions reccomend)
I thought measures 839 and on were a bit too rubato.  But that's just my taste.
One thing you must remember is at 883, keep the measures of 2/4 in the same time as the 3/8. Lots of pianists play 1/8 note= 1/8 note.  That's not what liszt intended.
Great octaves at the end.
Listen to Arrau's recording.  He really captures the spirit of this piece.  It's a horror story!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I must agree with others that to have it at this level at age 13 and after only a month is indeed commendable; in particular the rhythmic aspects. It is, however, as I think you know, not yet sufficiently tidy or polished for an international festival. I'm sure tidying up the loose spots in the passagework will come with practice; you certainly sound like you have the required agility.

In the meantime, a few suggestions (my score doesn't have bar numbers, so I'll do it by time):

1.41: I would be inclined to make more of this arrival. After that I'm really not sure about the low B before the gliss; it sounds like a mannerism and I'd rather hear the full gliss sweep up the keyboard without the introduction from the B.

1.50: I would make more of this figure (it's rinforz.) and the similar one at 1.55.

2.25: I would pull back the dynamics a little after the sf so as to be able to make a bigger expansion in sound three bars later (cresc. here): similarly with the bigger crescendi which follow.

3.07: More espressivo amoroso. The l.h. is too detached (imo) and I'd experiment with the pedal and using a 'bebung' touch.

7.59: I think you've upped the tempo, possibly unnecessarily, here and actually you're ending up by making things difficult for yourself.

8.19: The Presto (strepitoso) is a little slow for my tastes, but it's forgiveable when it's one of the trickiest passages.

8.41: As birba says, the leaps are formidable. I agree with him to put the thumb on the lower note. I would suggest that you practice the leaps by firstly playing the lower note as an octave rather than a single note (in effect doing an octave jump in octaves - finger both as 15), train your hand to think of the leap as the thumb taking the place of the fifth finger as the the hand hops up the keyboard. Keep the hand as close to the keybed as possible, i.e. jump as close to horizontally as possible with a minimum of vertical motion. Having done that, repeat but with the fifth finger marginally raised initially so you're now only playing with the thumb on the lower note (as written). This means that the hand is already in the correct open position and so to get to the upper octave you're only jumping, not flexing open the hand from single note to octave as well. I trust my explanation is clear; it's not easy to describe it in words!

9.53: your tempo in the 2/4 doesn't connect with what preceded it.

Keep up the good work!
 

[birba]

13 years old?!?!?!?!?!?  OMG!  I had no idea.  
All the more admirable.

[birba]

Thank you ronde.de.sylphes!!  That octave jump practise is just what I needed!  I hadn't thought about practising that way.  Since I'm pretty good at octave leaps, that is going to be a real help.  I have to admit, I played the mephisto only once in my life (eons ago) and it was just because of those leaps I decided never to play it again.  Someone last year suggested the thumb-octave fingering which I really found helpful.  Now your excercise has inspired me to have another try at it.  Thanks!!

[can]

Thank you very very much. All of you are so kind and your suggestions are very important and valuable. After I study a bit more I would like to post a newer version. Thank you again.

Happy New Year

[pianovlad1996]

Very mature playing for a 13 years old pianist.... I'm very upset about that mean comment made by hakki as he SHOULD make it sound constructive not distructive. And what's the deal with the paid recital or something like that? Very impolite as hakki should not discourage young performers despite of his experience in playing on stage. Anyway,the Chopin was well played. There are certainly small problems that can be solved in the Mephisto Waltz: In the beggining, the nuances are quite the same as the piano part is in the same level as the mezzo forte and forte one. The meno mosso should be more romantic, more appassionato with a bit rubato. The first presto part is nearly transparent. Make it more scherzando and detached. The allegretto e rubato has a weak left hand without the correct pedal. You should make a huge crescendo in the presto strepitoso so as the leggiero molto part will be a pleasant surprise for the audience making it in piano. The leggiero part is another problem. We (the audience) should hear the difference between those piano, staccatissimo and leggiero chords and the rinforzando ones as you need to exagerate. Also, make a crescendo on the rinforzando chords. The ending is a bit rushed and superficial, as you are supposed to end a thirty page piece. The octaves and the last two chords are throwed on the keyboard. But looking at the whole piece, you made a very very good job. 
Love, 
Timea 

[starstruck5]

The Chopin was amazing - the Liszt also in my view -after just a months preperation -wow!  I couldn't play it like that if I worked on it for a year or more -perhaps never! 

Just keep working at your art - you will do fine.

[johnmar78]

very good for 13 years old. good work pal. You might reliaze when you get older, the interpretation will change. Play a little slower and enjoy /listen to each chord notes played, This can be more tastefull....looking forwrd to see your next update.

[hakki]

can:

I apologize for the annoyance, disturbance and damage my comment has caused.
I really am very sorry.

I would also like to assure you that, being someone from your home town, I hope and wish the best for you to become as successful a pianist as you would want to be.

regards,

[can]

thank you very much hakki