practising with closed eyes

[paris]

what do you think about practising chopin etude op.10 n.1 with closed eyes? i tried today, and i think it's good, because you can better remeber position of hand in each chord.
of course, that won't improve etude if you're just doing this, but it can help

i'm interested about your opinions about that

a.m.d.

[donjuan]

I think it will help with keyboard orientation skills, but musically- you are right- nothing will improve

[nick]

I think you will increase accuracy when playing with your eyes closed, but nothing more. Any particular reason you wanted to practice this way?
Nick

[jeff]

practicing with eyes closed will force you to turn your attention to your other senses - i.e. the sound, and the feel of the position of your hands/arms/etc.
so, it could help musically also (as long as you intend it to do so).

[paris]

Any particular reason you wanted to practice this way?
Nick[/quote]

yes, i want to achieve being free on keyboard as much i can, and of course, be accurate.
i read in one chopin biography that he used to practise in the dark, so he could focus only on sound of music

a.m.d.

[paris]

sorry for quote, but i STILL don't know how to do that!

[CC]

When you open your eyes, your brain must automatically process a tremendous amount of info: the bandwidth of the 2-D moving image on your 2 retinas is huge! Not only that, the image is hard-wired to innumerable automatic reactions in your ears, emotional centers, etc.  IOW, when you open your eyes, you really give your brain a tremendous amount of work, whether you know it or not (if you see a lion charging at you, you will turn white and start running before you realize what you are doing, or if something is thrown at you, you will blink automatically; try walking or surfing with eyes closed).  When you close the eyes, all this brain resource is immediately released, available for anything else. Thus it becomes easier to concentrate on accuracy and musicality. At the same time, the audience thinks that anyone who can play with eyes closed is a genius, whereas in reality, it is easier (once you get used to it). Therefore, when you really need to concentrate, close the eyes; however, make it a point to practice with eyes open and looking around (and even talking at the same time) so that you don't develop a lazy brain that cannot play piano and process other info at the same time. In piano practice, the most important job is to increase your brain energy and stamina -- closing your eyes will not help you accomplish this.

[zhiliang]

I believe that practising with eyes closed actually make you listen more to the sounds you are producing. With your eyes closed, you actually hear better. And naturally with your eyes open, it would be even easier for you when performing.

My former teacher has always emphasized that in the shortest time possible, to try to practice with eyes closed after the notes are learnt.

[DrEvil-]

I completely agree: playing with closed eyes can help you to listen better and play more accurately.

In the c major tocatta like section at the beginning of the prokofiev 1st piano concerto, there are these octave jumps in the RH all around the upper keyboard. These felt sort of risky to me until I practiced with my eyes closed. Now, they're no trouble

[zhiliang]

And with the increased awareness i would say that musicality is improved too.

[IllBeBach]

I agree, too, and do it all the time.  On the subject of avoiding "lazy brain" syndrome, I suggest making sure you practice all the ways Chang suggested, but also make sure to practice on pianos in different rooms and environments as well.  I've found that my memory may seem perfect in the room I normally practice in, but tends to be much less dependable when I play elsewhere.  I think my memory becomes tied to the room and piano on which I practice the most.

[nick]

Nickyes, i want to achieve being free on keyboard as much i can, and of course, be accurate.
i read in one chopin biography that he used to practise in the dark, so he could focus only on sound of music

With so many pianists able to play very musically with eyes open makes me wonder if the problem with 'not being free' has more to do with practice method. I feel very free and play musically, and my eyes are open. Something to think about.

Nick

[zhiliang]

With so many pianists able to play very musically with eyes open makes me wonder if the problem with 'not being free' has more to do with practice method. I feel very free and play musically, and my eyes are open. Something to think about.

Nick

The pianists who are playing with their eyes open, well they may have practiced with eyes closed, and they do not display that during performance, we do not know that. But it certainly benefits some of us who have tried this method of practicing, as with our eyes open during a performance, we might feel even more secure in our playing. And by then, we might already have the interpretation of the piece. Pianists do not play scales during performance, but can we say that they dont practice scales at all in any time of their studies?

[nick]

The pianists who are playing with their eyes open, well they may have practiced with eyes closed, and they do not display that during performance, we do not know that. But it certainly benefits some of us who have tried this method of practicing, as with our eyes open during a performance, we might feel even more secure in our playing. And by then, we might already have the interpretation of the piece. Pianists do not play scales during performance, but can we say that they dont practice scales at all in any time of their studies?

To assume that painists that play with eyes open during performance practice with eyes closed is a stretch in my opinion. If you really want to know if they do,  read a biography of some of your favorite pianists and then you will know. There is one called 'interview with 12 concert pianist' in the public library that is interesting. It is an old book with pianists like Andre Watts and others from that period, but talks about practice methods. I don't recall one of them saying they practiced with eyes closed, but if you search other sources I am sure you will find some that do I guess. But if you try it and it works for you, then obviously  you know it is valuable, so why even look. It won't take long to find out.

Nick  

[zhiliang]

To assume that painists that play with eyes open during performance practice with eyes closed is a stretch in my opinion. If you really want to know if they do,  read a biography of some of your favorite pianists and then you will know. There is one called 'interview with 12 concert pianist' in the public library that is interesting. It is an old book with pianists like Andre Watts and others from that period, but talks about practice methods. I don't recall one of them saying they practiced with eyes closed, but if you search other sources I am sure you will find some that do I guess. But if you try it and it works for you, then obviously  you know it is valuable, so why even look. It won't take long to find out.

Nick  

Hi Nick,

I do not disagree with you but do consider that books on interviews with famous pianists, they do not relate everything down. Some perhaps does this and they believe that this certain practice method is the key to their success, and so they mentioned it. But i dont think that everything is down in books. I have taken quite a lot of time reading these books. There is a book by the title "Pianists At Play" by Dean Elder. It includes quite a bit of info on technical regimes, master classes, how to practice and interpretation ideas. But do you believe that everything is revealed in that book? That Arthur Rubinstein actually tells you how he really practice? What i conclude is that, all these plus the "closed eyes" are all ideas that can be considered. Not all will work for everyone. You have read on Andre Watts and his practice methods. Have you tried them all? Do you play on the same level as him after following exactly what he does? The answer might just be "NO". So i guess, an open mind in accepting ideas and well also choosing what is the approach that is more suitable for you is more important.

So my bottom line is, even if 12 concert pianists practice with their eyes open, and i find that practicing with my eyes closed through experiences actually helps me, i would still recommend that its worth a try for (those who might need help on that). Not everyone is a Horowitz or a Mozart, and me, being neither will probably need more help.

[nick]

Hi Nick,



So my bottom line is, even if 12 concert pianists practice with their eyes open, and i find that practicing with my eyes closed through experiences actually helps me, i would still recommend that its worth a try for (those who might need help on that). Not everyone is a Horowitz or a Mozart, and me, being neither will probably need more help.

Glad you have good results with eyes closed. Good luck.

Nick

[anda]

practicing with my eyes closed helped me play this etude - it's good because this way the hand (and especially the arm) learns the way without visual help. practice this way a lot, till you get at least half the final tempo, and after that, when you play with your eyes opened, try not to look at your hand but one octave ahead (the notes are exactly the same but one octave further), this will help your hand remember it's trajectory.

[Spatula]

I believe that practising with eyes closed actually make you listen more to the sounds you are producing. With your eyes closed, you actually hear better. And naturally with your eyes open, it would be even easier for you when performing.

My former teacher has always emphasized that in the shortest time possible, to try to practice with eyes closed after the notes are learnt.

Right on! I do my technique blinded so I concentrate not on so much the accuracy of the notes, but the sound of the technique.  I perform my technique, not merely practice them.

[Brian Healey]

Practicing with eyes closed probably will help your accuracy, because it will force your fingers to "learn" on their own, without needing your eyes to guide them. But, it'll mostly help your sight-reading. After all, sight-reading is just playing while looking at a piece of music. Not having to look at your hands will give your mind one less thing to think about while trying to read an unfamiliar piece, and increase your sight-reading speed and accuracy.

As far as performance, playing with the eyes closed is just showmanship in my opinion. "Wow, he's playing with his eyes closed, he must really be feeling the music!". That kinda thing. Not necessary, but it looks good.

[alextryan]

::::  I Disagree :::::

Reasons:

1) My teacher asks: "What are you avoiding [by closing your eyes]?"

2) I am less aware of good technique/hand position when I close my eyes

3) I get spacey -- yes I listen/feel more, but full engagement is important, I think.  

I just stay more involved with what I'm doing when my eyes are open...  and I've practiced many, many hours with closed eyes...

[Indigo]

From my own experience, i close my eyes when practicing as i'm too lazy to remove the music and know that i won't be able to perform the piece without the music in front of me.  So i become attached to the music and when i get lost i open my eyes.  This is very different from not having the music in front of you at all.  If it works it works, but having your eyes opened and playing without the music is a much greater goal imho...