Request for Suggestion on FTCL (Trinity UK) piano recital programme

[symphonicdance]

I have finished my LTCL, and am going for FTCL in Nov/Dec 2012 or Apr/May 2013, though I am a 40+ years old (yes, it'll be a tough journey).  My technical skill is not superb, but I think I have a reasonably good music sense.  I can practise about an hour every day (at best) as I have a full time job.

In the 42-48 min programme requirement, I am thinking of:
Bach - Partita No 6 in E minor (without repeats)
Hindemith - Piano Sonata No 3

The two will add up to 38-40 min, and I still have 4-10 min.  Which of the following will not too difficult?  Better to go for one or two of them (to make the total number of pieces to be three or four in the programme)?
Grainger - In Dahomey (c. 4 min)
Schumann - Toccata (without repeats) (c. 4 min)
J. Adams - American Berserk (c. 6 min)
Debussy - Prelude 'Feux d'artifices' (c. 4min.)

By the way, is Bach generally a dangerous choice in exam?

Any other suggestions are most welcome and appreciated.

I passed my LTCL by 100% self-learning, but this time, I'll find a teacher once I fix the programme and am more familiar with the pieces.

Thank you very much for your advice.

[peter_g_moll]

Dear SymphonicDance,

Your programme (Bach Partita 6, Hindemith Sonata 3) is already technically challenging and an enormous memory burden.  You would be justified in choosing a 4-minute piece with lesser memory and technical challenges, possibly a Romantic one that would demonstrate lyrical or expressive ability.  The Schumann and Debussy wouldn't fall into this category as their focus is the level of technical demand.  Perhaps the Grainger or the Adams would be more suitable?  That said, my experience is that the examiners rarely have objections to the choice of repertoire but focus almost exclusively on the quality of execution.

I wonder if you could be so kind as to post the repertoire you used for the LTCL.  That would be of interest to me as I intend to take the examination.  I am sure there would be others who would be interested also.  Congratulations on reaching this level by self-instruction.

Good luck,
Peter

[beebert]

SymphonicDance, very well done!

I am curious! How old were you when you started playing the piano/how long have you been playing?

[symphonicdance]

Dear both, thank you for your posts.

I started to learn the piano when I was five, but didn't do well because I was not very interested and my teachers could not inspire and motivate me.  I stopped learning when I was 15, only completed Grade 5.  Then, pretty much leisure playing and self-learning.  It was only about 2 years ago that a sudden thought popped up, for which I wanted to prove myself (and that I am qualified to teach my daughter).  I did find a teacher to help me prepare for ATCL in 2009.  Then I decided to challenge LTCL with my own effort, as I didn't find my teacher extremely useful (she was good, but not up to my expectation).  However, I know I would need to find a good one to help me with my brush up for the FT.

When preparing for LT, I had tried to practise the following and thought of many different combinations:
Bach English Suite No 2; Mozart Sonata in D major, K576; Beethoven Tempest & Les Adieux Sonatas; Prokofiev Sonata Nos 1 & 5; Schubert Impromptu in B flat; Barber Nocturne; Chopin Scherzo Nos 2 & 3, Polonaise No 5 and Chopin Ballade No 1; Rachmaninoff Prelude in D major Op 23 No 4; a few Liszt Concert & Paganini Etudes; Schumann Papillon Op 2; Granados Goyescas Nos 1 & 4; Pieces from Ravel Miroirs; etc.  (I must admit that I had played a number of them for leisure before.)

The below one was almost my final:
Barber Nocturne
Bach English Suite No 2 (no repeats)
Mozart Sonata in D major, K576 (no repeats)
Chopin Ballade No 1

At the end, I picked:
Mozart Rondo in A minor K511
Prokofiev Two pieces from Romeo & Juliet (ix and x)
Bach Prelude & Fugue in E flat minor BWV853 WTC Bk 1
Ravel Sonatine

Though I did memorise the pieces in my AT and LT, I didn't choose to play from memory - just to play safe in case I suddenly forgot for whatsoever reason.  Exam guidelines indicate that play from memory is not a compulsory requirement, though I suspect that it actually will affect the mark in reality.

Recently I heard of 2 people preparing the following for their coming FTCL:
Bach/Busoni Chaconne
Beethoven Waldstein Sonata
Ravel Gaspard du nuit
and
Beethoven Appassionata Sonata
Chopin Andante spianato et grand polonaise
Debussy Feux d'artifices

[squarevince]

Very cool and good luck with that, symphonicdance.  I'd never heard of the ATCL/LTCL/FTCL until now, and having moved to the UK and recently begun picking the piano again, I'm really quite curious about it.

I was looking at the syllabus here:
https://www.martin-borgschulte.de/Diploma_syllabus_COMPLETE.pdf

I'm curious as to how it all works & does a work that is specified as appropriate for ATCL automatically disqualify it for LTCL/FTCL.  For example, Chopin's Etude 10/#12, or Ginastera's Danza Argentinas.  They may not be as technically difficult as the classic "difficult" pieces like Bach/Busoni Chaccone or Hammerklavier, but if you play them like Richter or Argerich, I'd imagine that should count for something (not that I play them anywhere NEAR that level, just sayin').

Or at that level, is it really more about picking substantial pieces that illustrate a well rounded program.

cheers,
vince

[symphonicdance]

To: squarevince

Thank you for your note.

I think Trinity would look for a candidate to perform a balanced programme.  But, at FTCL level, many pieces in the syllabus are quite long (over 15 min, and a number can last over 25 min), and so it may not be easy to find 4-5 pieces of different periods, for which they fit my personal preference and "limited" technical skills, and which each around 10-15 min (playing duration is between 42 min. and 48 min.)

Trinity does not allow picking a piece that is listed at a lower level, unless specified in the syllabus or unless approved separately (along with the entire programme).  So, even if the candidate could play like a master (not me either), he/she can't use a piece on the AT/LT syllabus for FT, unless such AT/LT piece fits the FT programme which he/she applies for approval.  Interesting, if the candidate intends to use a piece from the LT or FT list, he/she also needs to apply for approval.

FYI, the link to Trinity's diploma syllabus is:
https://www.trinitycollege.co.uk/site/viewresources.php?id=230
(The lower one of "Diploma in Music: Performance and Teaching")

I had thought of other programmes based on the pieces I like most, but inevitably, I need to put the priority towards those I can better manage at the end.

I'm still thinking about the programme.

[precipitato]

hi there! great to see a fellow FTCL preparing candidate

as for my program, i have chosen

Beethoven sonata 30 op 109
Liszt Dante sonata
Debussy Feux d'artifice

though i might change the Beethoven to Appassionata

42 - 48 minutes seem rather short, for all the works the syllabus are the masterpieces which are long... hence more people seems to go for Feux d'artifice or schumann's toccata (just like me) though my brother took a risk by playing for over 50 minutes :B

i have seen you tending to incline to the 20th century period works... i feel that a huge scale work of the classical or romantic period would be better... just my opinion! if you have time to change your program, i suggest:
Schubert D. 958, 959 or 960, wanderer fantasy
Schumann's works (the carnaval and symphonic etudes might be a bit long, kriesleriana or c major fantasy perhaps?)
Chopin sonata 2,3 or his grand polonaise
Liszt sonatas (they have included the entire Annes de Pelerinage 2 too, i think they're out of the mind)
Bach/busoni Chaconne

Rachmaninoff's sonata 2 and his corelli variations too? but i think he's under 20th century :/

i personally prefer tippet or prokofiev over hindesmith but i respect your thoughtful decisions!

bach, at this level,i think they would demand absolute perfection and the harpsichord texture portrayed through the piano, with a refined Bach-ian style. i personally avoid Bach, a slip of note would be catastrophic.

hats off to you for attempting to scale this final and huge hurdle!

[symphonicdance]

hi there! great to see a fellow FTCL preparing candidate

as for my program, i have chosen

Beethoven sonata 30 op 109
Liszt Dante sonata
Debussy Feux d'artifice

though i might change the Beethoven to Appassionata

42 - 48 minutes seem rather short, for all the works the syllabus are the masterpieces which are long... hence more people seems to go for Feux d'artifice or schumann's toccata (just like me) though my brother took a risk by playing for over 50 minutes :B

i have seen you tending to incline to the 20th century period works... i feel that a huge scale work of the classical or romantic period would be better... just my opinion! if you have time to change your program, i suggest:
Schubert D. 958, 959 or 960, wanderer fantasy
Schumann's works (the carnaval and symphonic etudes might be a bit long, kriesleriana or c major fantasy perhaps?)
Chopin sonata 2,3 or his grand polonaise
Liszt sonatas (they have included the entire Annes de Pelerinage 2 too, i think they're out of the mind)
Bach/busoni Chaconne

Rachmaninoff's sonata 2 and his corelli variations too? but i think he's under 20th century :/

i personally prefer tippet or prokofiev over hindesmith but i respect your thoughtful decisions!

bach, at this level,i think they would demand absolute perfection and the harpsichord texture portrayed through the piano, with a refined Bach-ian style. i personally avoid Bach, a slip of note would be catastrophic.

hats off to you for attempting to scale this final and huge hurdle!

Thank you for your note.  You have got an exciting programme!

I do have sufficient time to think and prepare for my exam, which I expect the earliest would be Nov/Dec 2012, provided that I feel ready by June.  Otherwise I hope to attempt it no later than mid-2013 .

I know Bach could be risky, and any small mistake could make big damage.  However, it does not demand lightning fingers.  I am 40+ years old.

I had thought of Schubert's D960, but I worried that it may be too long, even without any repetitions (c. 33-35 min).  Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy was on my shortlist before, perhaps I shall re-visit.  Nonetheless, I prefer Schumann's Fantasy to Schubert's Wanderer Fantasy, if I shall use any of these two in my programme, though both too famous and should be very familiar to the examiner.

Chopin's Andante spianato et grand polonaise is a piece which I attempted in a competition some 20+ years ago.  I could still recite, but certainly, I need a bit of brush up here.  Any way it is still on my mind though.

I don't feel that I am quite a showman, also having the power to bring out an orchestra through a piano.  So, Liszt has never been on my mind for exam, though I enjoy playing some of his works at leisure.

Chaconne is one of my favourite pieces, but personally I would enjoy playing it at leisure instead practising for exam.

I haven't played Rachmaninoff's PS 2 and Corelli Variations before, so I don't think I would swallow and digest any of them in a short period of time.

Interestingly, Stravinsky's Serenade in A is recently on my mind to make an alternative programme looks like:
Bach : Partita #6
Chopin : Andante spianato et grande polonaise
Stravinsky : Serenade in A
though in the absence of "a sonata".

Any way, many thanks for your kind-hearted thoughts.

[precipitato]

Hi again!

Heard that you possess a musical soul, then perhaps beethoven's late sonatas are open for you! (cut the hammerklavier...)
And I nearly forgortten, Brahms! His sonatas or variations of handel and paganini ought to be a consideration. Mendelssohn op 106 might be suitable too.
Since appealing is possible, you can email them about a programe where a piece isnt in the syllabus, I have heard of people appealing for the goldberg varitions!
Yup, your choice up there is good (though I have nearly forgotten the  stravinsky), hope it adds up to the uncomfortable time range. Yup, not necessary to must have a sonata, just a huge scale work would do!
And yes, I think a teacher of professional standard is neccesary. Also, I suggest you to look out for masterclasses!
Since I may take the exam this year, shall I share with you my personal experience?

Best wishes!

[symphonicdance]

Hi again!

Heard that you possess a musical soul, then perhaps beethoven's late sonatas are open for you! (cut the hammerklavier...)
And I nearly forgortten, Brahms! His sonatas or variations of handel and paganini ought to be a consideration. Mendelssohn op 106 might be suitable too.
Since appealing is possible, you can email them about a programe where a piece isnt in the syllabus, I have heard of people appealing for the goldberg varitions!
Yup, your choice up there is good (though I have nearly forgotten the  stravinsky), hope it adds up to the uncomfortable time range. Yup, not necessary to must have a sonata, just a huge scale work would do!
And yes, I think a teacher of professional standard is neccesary. Also, I suggest you to look out for masterclasses!
Since I may take the exam this year, shall I share with you my personal experience?

Best wishes!

Yes, that will be most appreciated if you'd share your FT exam experience.  Are you in UK or elsewhere?  I'm resided in Hong Kong, and I heard that every year there are only around 20 people able to attain FT (all instruments and voices) here.  Tough...

[precipitato]

Hi!

yeah, for other countries it would be harder a lot... I am in Singapore, and yearly theres only a single digit passes or none at all! really tough, but very rewarding if really achieved it