How long?

[beebert]

Hey everyone! This is the case, I have been playing the piano for almost 3 years and the hardest pieces I can do justice are pieces in the difficulty range of Dr Gradus ad parnassum (Debussy), Impromptus (Schubert) and some of the nocturnes by Chopin. Anyway, these last couple of months I have started to practice really hard, about 5-6 hours a day, and I wonder, considering the level of pieces I am playing right now and the amount of practice I do, how long do you think it would take me before I have the technique to make justice to pieces like the 3rd mvt of moonlight, the fantasie impromptu and the pathetique?

[pianoplayjl]

You are not too far away, judging by your current repertoire. It also depends on your musical maturity even though you practice a few hours a day. Do you feel ready for it? Do you feel you have a sense of accomplishing the current repertoire? What technical difficulties to find? If you are the conservatory type of person I think you have at most 1 year before you acquire the technique to play the Chopin and Beethoven. I'm not too sure about the musical maturity though because all 3 are very powerful, emotional, moving pieces that are among the pinnacle of piano repertoire. Good luck.

JL

[beebert]

Thank you for replying. Well I think, to be honest, that my musical maturity is more advanced than my technique. I am about to turn 18 in a week, and started playing 3 years ago. My problem is that I am really eager to play some of the pieces I really love, like for example the moonlight sonata, the ballade no 1(will take a while), chopin's 13th nocturne(probably my favourite piece) and the pathetique.. As I see it right now, it's my mentality that makes me think I am not ready for the pieces I mentioned in my earlier post. That, combined with my stamina and general technique. I have actually just recently(because of the amount of practice) developed the technique needed to play the Schubert Impromptus(I play the no 3 and 4 from op 90 and I am working on no 2 right now) and dr Gradus ad Parnassum.

What do you mean by "conservatory type of person"?

Thanks again?

[pianoplayjl]

Thank you for replying. Well I think, to be honest, that my musical maturity is more advanced than my technique. I am about to turn 18 in a week, and started playing 3 years ago. My problem is that I am really eager to play some of the pieces I really love, like for example the moonlight sonata, the ballade no 1(will take a while), chopin's 13th nocturne(probably my favourite piece) and the pathetique.. As I see it right now, it's my mentality that makes me think I am not ready for the pieces I mentioned in my earlier post. That, combined with my stamina and general technique. I have actually just recently(because of the amount of practice) developed the technique needed to play the Schubert Impromptus(I play the no 3 and 4 from op 90 and I am working on no 2 right now) and dr Gradus ad Parnassum.

What do you mean by "conservatory type of person"?

Thanks again?

I see that you are really ambitious. What I meant by 'conservatory type of person' is when children are that type of person who is prodigiously gifted at the piano or really good at it. But really, that is a very bad term to define because the boundaries of the definition are limitless! Why don't you post something in the Audition Room to get a better idea of where you are at and whether you are capable of playing your dream pieces in a year? That can really help your prospects, I hope.

JL

[beebert]

Yeah I guess I could do that Thanks once again

[enjru]

None of these 3 pieces you've mentioned should be beyond your abilities.

A lot of people would have learnt the Pathetique before learning the Schubert Impromptu in G flat. In any case, having learnt to bring out the melodic line in that Schubert Impromptu should make it easy for you to do the same in the 2nd movement of the Pathetique. 

The Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement really isn't that hard. It sounds hard because of the tempo and all the notes, which give the sheet music a very dense look, but these notes are all simple broken chords and arpeggios which you just need to get up to speed. Large chunks of it are actually very simple, really, with an Alberti bass and an easy melodic line in octaves in the right hand. When learning the 3rd movement, all you really have to do is to remember not to cheat by using the right pedal too much.

The Fantasie-Impromptu has a couple of interesting technical problems including 1) polyrhythms, 2) a motif in the right hand that plays two notes an octave apart followed by notes inside the octave (which is a bit unusual) and 3) the accents sometimes occurring on the 2nd semiquaver in a beat rather than at the start of each beat, but there's no reason why you can't start isolating each of these technical problems one by one and begin working on them now.

Good luck!

[49410enrique]

i think with your background those are approachable probably now or very soon (sooner if you have a very good instructor).  don't be intimidated by the beethoven or chopin these two works in particular i would rate at the bottom end of the advanced level(s), i.e. early advanced or very gifted and (hard work) at the late late intermediate levels.  the beethoven perhaps a much more developed and deeper work is sort of like trying to eat an elephant, rather than be overwhelmed by it take it phrase by phrase, i.e. you eat an elephant one bite at a time.

i think you should learn the 2nd mvnt too, it's so pretty and i think leads in quite well and provides great contrast to the finale.

[beebert]

Thanks everyone. Perhaps you are right. I did not earlier mention that I do play the first bars in moonlight mvt 3 at tempo but when I continue I feel like I have not yet got the stamina for it.. Same applies to a piece like for example the revolutionary etude, a piece which I can play like half a page of or something but then I feel fatigued.. I don't know, perhaps you are right, but I feel like I need a bit more finger dexterity but perhaps that is something I can get from these pieces? Also, I forgot to mention that I already play the 1st and 2nd mvt of moonlight sonata, and I agree with you enrique, that the second mvt is a great contrast to the last mvt

enjru, I also forgot to mention I already play the second mvt of pathetique, which I actually learnt before the Impromptu in G flat. Though, the first mvt is the one that seems to create problems for me. I get tired by those tremolos in left hand and I find it hard to hit right at all rapid chords in the right hand.. Any tips?

[enjru]

I get tired by those tremolos in left hand and I find it hard to hit right at all rapid chords in the right hand.. Any tips?

The tiredness from the tremolos sound like tension from incorrect technique. Are you holding some part of your arm/hand/finger anatomy too stiffly? Where exactly do you feel this tiredness (in the arm, hand or fingers, etc)? Get your teacher to take a look at how you're playing these tremolos, or maybe post a video here...I've learnt a lot from all the expert advice given here after someone's asked for help and posted a video of their playing.

Regarding the difficulty hitting the correct chords in the right hand, perhaps this is a problem due to not understanding the chord progressions being used? At what level is your musical theory, especially in terms of harmony and chord progressions? If you understand the chord progressions and the reasoning for them, you'd be able to play these chords a lot more efficiently, rather than having to rote learn every chord change. Otherwise, if you're just rote learning all the chords, it will take a lot longer, because then, you are relying on what we call muscle-memory, which is when, after repeating the same movements over and over again, your muscles eventually remember what to do by themselves, like after someone learns how to ride a bicycle, they do not need to consciously think about every movement involved.

My personal opinion is that it is important to do a structural analysis (including a harmonic analysis) of the piece in order to really appreciate what you are playing. Some people disagree and they're happy with making lovely sounds. I guess what you decide to do depends on whether you're content to play it, or whether you want to really know what you're playing and be in a position to make informed commentary on it, and even, perhaps one day, interpret it in your own way. But it would seem to me a little disrespectful towards the composer, for someone to interpret a piece of music in his/her own way, before he/she is even clearly familiarized with what the composer had done in the first place.

Hope this helps.

[beebert]

Than you enjru, for taking your time to help me! I will really try to take advantage of your help and analyze the score. This obviously helped me alot when I learned the Impromptu in G flat, and it was important to do so with that piece, not only because of all the flats I will follow your suggestions and see how things develops. Thereafter I will tell how it works out here!