What is the maximum keyweight that is "safe" to play on?

[pianoplayer002]

Hello!

I'm currently busying myself with looking into piano-playing related injuries. According to some, playing on a piano with heavy keys is dangerous and should be avoided in favour of light action pianos. Others claim that with the proper technique playing on a heavy piano will not be dangerous. Is this always true or only up to a certain point? A modern concert Steinway has a key weight of about 50-55 grams. But what if that weight was increased to 60-65 grams? Or even 70-75 grams? 80-85? Would it still be safe to play for someone who has "proper" technique?

//pianoplayer002

[keyboardclass]

Depends what you play.

[pianoplayer002]

All the Chopin Etudes for example.

[keyboardclass]

It wouldn't be safe to attempt them a tempo on anything heavier than concert weight.  They were meant for a much lighter action in the first place.  Still, one persons injury is another's endurance.

[ted]

I have used my Virgil Practice Clavier on up to eight ounces for over forty years and its effect on my technique has been wonderful, I don't think I could play the way I do without it. But I would stress that I do not "play" on it in the sense of going through many pieces up to speed. I use the high resistance with discretion to improve isolated specific finger techniques, and never for longer than five minutes night and morning.

Any negative effects in my playing apparatus have invariably occurred through stupid, overly repetitive playing on my Weinbach, not through the use of high resistance on the clavier. Wouldn't a lot depend on exactly how somebody played ? I can think of people who would be bound to hurt themselves grunting and straining on a light piano.

The dip of the keys would also be important.

[jesc]

You'll have to ask a technician regarding what I'm about to say cause it might sound counter intuitive.

There's the weight of course but also there's the natural "volume" of the piano. I have a relatively heavy upright piano where the soft touches will result to almost nothing heard. I play another piano in the college with almost the same key weight but a slight touch results to a louder note.

For example, I'm playing and will have to put extra effort on my piano to bring out even the sligthest pianissimo while playing the fastest possible. Then I go to the other piano and play it effortlessly.

I've been playing my heavy piano ever since I started learning. What it gave me was the wrong habit of banging the piano just to get that "forte". It also gave me the headache of regularly breaking strings.

TBH sometimes my hands would hurt. However, proper rest, and knowing when to stop prevented any permanent injuries.

[ajspiano]

Others claim that with the proper technique playing on a heavy piano will not be dangerous

Anyone else think playing on a light piano with poor technique is potentially dangerous?

[keyboardclass]

Poor technique is always dangerous.

[keyboardkat]

Playing the piano is not supposed to be akin to an exercise in weight lifting.   That said, in general, if you practice on a heavy piano, you will be able to play on anything. 
The late Earl Wild, a fabulous pianist and all-around musician, complained that the actions on most American Steinway grands was too heavy.   He commented about how easy it is to play an octave glissando on most European pianos, and how you tear your fingers attempting it on some of the pianos in America. 
But one thing to remember:   If your hands or wrists start to hurt, STOP AND REST!!   Your body is trying to tell you something.   If you persist playing with pain, you will end up with an injury, as did Leon Fleisher.

[jtguru]

That said, in general, if you practice on a heavy piano, you will be able to play on anything.

I'm really not so sure about this. I don't even practice on a particularly heavy piano, and yet it is still very difficult for me to accurately play extremely fast passages on very light keys, passages that are quite easy for me to play perfectly on a "normal" piano. When you play quickly on a heavier piano, your fingers are likely bumping keys that you aren't actually playing, and it is fine because the weight of the keys is enough to keep the note from sounding. But when you make that same motion on light keys, the slight bumping of the key will be enough to sound notes that don't belong in the music. In passages with fast chords, it is quite difficult to avoid this when you aren't used to dealing with it.

[jesc]

When you play quickly on a heavier piano, your fingers are likely bumping keys that you aren't actually playing, and it is fine because the weight of the keys is enough to keep the note from sounding. But when you make that same motion on light keys, the slight bumping of the key will be enough to sound notes that don't belong in the music.

True. Following this line of thought I would like to add another. Personally, in my experience when playing from my heavy piano and transferring to a very light one (another grand piano at the college with very light keys) there is also the issue of uneveness of the volume of each note.

This uneveness become very noticeable when doing piannissimo (either fast or very slow). A very heavy piano (with a low volume or whatever the technical term for that) will hide the little uneveness in your strikes to the keys while a very light piano will magnify them.

Example, a simple prelude in C by Bach from the well tempered clavier. I practiced it on my heavy piano, ok, I'm good. Then I play it on a very light piano where the slightest touch reverberates throughout the room. Suddenly I'm bombarded with an uneven ugly piece (especially the soft parts) therefore I had to quickly adjust.

BTW all my examples aren't just illustrations, they actually happened to me.TBH, right now when I'm checking for evenness, regularity, proper volume allthroughout I play on the lightest piano (like my digital) then I go to my heavy piano. Heck, I just switch between them regularly.

[keyboardclass]

Example, a simple prelude in C by Bach from the well tempered clavier. I practiced it on my heavy piano, ok, I'm good. Then I play it on a very light piano where the slightest touch reverberates throughout the room. Suddenly I'm bombarded with an uneven ugly piece (especially the soft parts) therefore I had to quickly adjust.

Sounds uncannily like Chopin and his problem with his favourite piano which was a Pleyel:
“When I am not in the mood, I play on the Erard piano, where I find the ready tone easily. But when I am full of vigour and strong enough to find my very own tone – I need a Pleyel piano”