i have mistaken hand-finger posture -WITH PHOTO-

[musichopin]

hey, i started to play piano 2 years ago. and i cannot control top of my left thumb when i extend my hand. -right hand and thumb on the picture- so it becomes hard to play octaves or even to play arpeggios with my left. is there a way to fix it?
thanks

[keyboardclass]

hey, i started to play piano 2 years ago. and i cannot control top of my left thumb when i extend my hand. -right hand and thumb on the picture- so it becomes hard to play octaves or even to play arpeggios with my left. is there a way to fix it?
thanks

You would appear to be flexing both wrist and fingers.

[musichopin]

well, sorry but i did not understand.

[keyboardclass]

The picture is confusing.  Are you saying you can't bend the top joint of your thumb inward (flexion) when you extend (extension) your thumb and little finger to form an octave?

[musichopin]

thanks, exactly that is what i say is there an exercise to get over that?

[keyboardclass]

You need to understand the anatomy to work the problem out for yourself.  There is a tendon that joins the inside top joint of the thumb and runs trough your wrist to under the forearm where it attaches to the muscle which flexes it (bends it toward the palm).  On the outside of your thumb is a tendon that attaches to the lower joint and goes through your wrist and attaches to a muscle on the top of your forearm.   To do what you wish you need to extend the lower joint but flex the upper.  It could be you're wired differently than others though that would very rare.  Practice partially extending the lower joint whilst flexing the top joint.

[musichopin]

thanks for the reply but i would be soo glad if you made a video about it.

[nyiregyhazi]

hey, i started to play piano 2 years ago. and i cannot control top of my left thumb when i extend my hand. -right hand and thumb on the picture- so it becomes hard to play octaves or even to play arpeggios with my left. is there a way to fix it?
thanks

If you Google swan neck deformity, you'll find some information about a physical issue caused by loose ligaments. I believe this is the issue here.  Apparently using a splint for support can aid long term improvement.

[keyboardclass]

Here's some pics: 
 

The first picture shows the Extensor Pollis Brevis (Pollis just means thumb).  That's the muscle/tendon on the back of the hand that pulls the lower joint back.  The second picture is the Flexor Pollis Longus on the palm side of the hand - the muscle that pulls the top thumb joint toward the palm.

[musichopin]

i appreciate your answers. but i still request an exercise video =)

[keyboardclass]

If you Google swan neck deformity, you'll find some information about a physical issue caused by loose ligaments. I believe this is the issue here.  Apparently using a splint for support can aid long term improvement.

https://visualsunlimited.photoshelter.com/image/I0000.SCnW4Yadwg
I think if that was the problem he'd be at the doctors by now.

[keyboardclass]

i appreciate your answers. but i still request an exercise video =)

A video of what?

[nyiregyhazi]

https://visualsunlimited.photoshelter.com/image/I0000.SCnW4Yadwg
I think if that was the problem he'd be at the doctors by now.

No. Do some more googling. There are different levels of severity. Normal joints stop at an extended position. This condition means joints move way beyond that- due to physical issues. Apparently the thumb versions iscalled duck bill deformity. I don't see how looking at diagrams of tendons will help. The brain is wired to conceive movement around the joint where it occurs- not via the location of the tendon. If it were a simple issue, thinking of bending the joint would be way more productive than worrying about where the tendons are. However, for those with this condition it is not a simple issue. The poster needs to see a doctor and look into a splint.

[keyboardclass]

I think you'll find his thumb is not deformed.

[fleetfingers]

Try this:

https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hitchhikers-thumb.htm

Pictures:

https://udel.edu/~mcdonald/myththumb.html


That's what it looks like to me, but I'm not sure what can be done if it is difficult to play octaves and such. It would be interesting to see a video of you playing; to see if and how it is getting in the way.

[nyiregyhazi]

I think you'll find his thumb is not deformed.

If you want to argue about the likelihood of this, would you like to do some research into it first? The briefest of googling would quickly tell you that this position is not necessarily permanent and that those with the condition often end up in this position when trying to perform movements- exactly as the poster has described. Can you get your thumb into such a position?

Here's an example of the finger version, where the hand alternates between looking completely normal and going into the deformed position.

[keyboardclass]

Here's an example of the finger version, where the hand alternates between looking completely normal and going into the deformed position.

You'd have to reference your Tubiana to see that the IP joint is flexed in Swan-neck of the thumb (A).  You seem to be describing what he calls Z deformity (B).   But, as I've said, the OP isn't deformed!  These are all problems caused by rheumatoid arthritis.

[nyiregyhazi]

You'd have to reference your Tubiana to see that the IP joint is flexed in Swan-neck of the thumb (A).  You seem to be describing what he calls Z deformity (B).   But, as I've said, the OP isn't deformed!  These are all problems caused by rheumatoid arthritis.

Arthritis is not the only cause. I've encountered at least two students who had this in their fingers. The photo you linked before was described as swan neck deformity but has the z shape, so there doesn't seem to be complete agreement on use of terms. Whichever label is applied, I know that these broad issues can sometimes be improved by splints to stabilise the collapsing joint.

[musichopin]

i do not think i have hitchhiker's thumb because i cannot move edge of my thumb to extreme level this guy on this video:

@keyboardclass
at first i thought i would recover this problem with exercises as you suggested at first. but now i see i might have swan neck deformity. but what should i do now, which doctor i should see and what kind of splint i should use?

thanks for your help.

i also posted a new photo and me playing Chopin prelude. apparently i cannot control tip of my thumb in vertical position...

thQvw&index=6&feature=plcp

[keyboardclass]

Can you bend your thumb nail joint inward at all, from any position?  From your vid I can't help thinking it's psychosomatic.  From the pic it seems your only problem is not being able to bend the top joint - joints below look fine.

[musichopin]

 well, i cannot bend my thumb nail joint inwards in vertical position. you can see the difference on photo. -right one is my left hand actually on photo-

[keyboardclass]

If you really cannot bend it at all it sounds congenital.  Maybe the tendon that straightens out your thumb is so tight it won't allow the bending tendon to work.  I really think this is something for your doctor.   If you can bend it a little it's worth practicing that.

[nyiregyhazi]

Can you bend your thumb nail joint inward at all, from any position?  From your vid I can't help thinking it's psychosomatic.  From the pic it seems your only problem is not being able to bend the top joint - joints below look fine.

Personally, I'd say the very opposite.  Why does the top joint need to bend inwards anyway? While it's worth trying to improve range of movement, there's no need to bend that joint much-and especially not to try to brace it. In that piece, I'd only bend it very slightly, before straightening out again during the depression of each key.

What I'd be concerned by is the rigidly braced joint lower down. It's severely cramped up. Instead of bracing it, I'd be extending the thumb out to its full length- to put an end to that cramped position. I have a student with a very similar thumb who was similarly stiff in it. The action of extension has resulted in a wealth of improvement. His thumb no longer looks anatomically strange when he plays, but now appears perfectly normal. Particularly in the case of slightly unusual anatomy, extension of the thumb is the simplest way to use it. There are various exercises for this in the second post down on my blog. If the top joint will not bend, just concentrate on getting the others moving, rather than locked stiffly.

[musichopin]

Personally, I'd say the very opposite.  Why does the top joint need to bend inwards anyway? While it's worth trying to improve range of movement, there's no need to bend that joint much-and especially not to try to brace it. In that piece, I'd only bend it very slightly, before straightening out again during the depression of each key.

What I'd be concerned by is the rigidly braced joint lower down. It's severely cramped up. Instead of bracing it, I'd be extending the thumb out to its full length- to put an end to that cramped position. I have a student with a very similar thumb who was similarly stiff in it. The action of extension has resulted in a wealth of improvement. His thumb no longer looks anatomically strange when he plays, but now appears perfectly normal. Particularly in the case of slightly unusual anatomy, extension of the thumb is the simplest way to use it. There are various exercises for this in the second post down on my blog. If the top joint will not bend, just concentrate on getting the others moving, rather than locked stiffly.

Thanks much. So i do not need to use splints and after doing your exercises it will recover?

[nyiregyhazi]

Thanks much. So i do not need to use splints and after doing your exercises it will recover?

The exercises won't necessarily help with the movement issue- although it's possible that developing more freedom in the braced joint might help improve freedom of movement in the tip. However, they should give you a much easier way of playing, whether it becomes possible to bend the tip inward or not. It depends how far your thumb will bend back upon reaching out though. If extending makes that happen severely, it might be worth trying a splint.

[musichopin]

spam

[nyiregyhazi]

spam

[musichopin]

Not too sure about the trigger finger issue. I don't wish to imply that I have any expertise in medical issues. Swan neck finger is just a particular thing I have heard about. The braces there wouldn't be any use, as they would restrict movement of the important joints. For swan neck, there are little plastic braces that simply keep the relevant joint from doubling back on itself. I presume there is a thumb equivalent.

Before you try those though, I'd just work on the extension action and see if that causes the joint to double back. If you can eliminate the stiffly held bend at the base of your thumb and lengthen it out instead, you'll be fine- as long as this doesn't cause severe doubling back of end joint. Try the exercises on my blog and see how your thumb behaves when doing those.

I will surely try to do your exercises but i do not want to force my thumb much because i already feel pain. i will probably order something like this one as i could not find a small plastic brace as you mentioned.
https://www.amazon.com/MedSpec-Tee-Pee-Thumb-Protector/dp/B002TTLV30/ref=sr_1_7?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1326743729&sr=1-7
And is it okay to take it off when i play piano or i have to wear it for several weeks?

[keyboardclass]

Jesus Christ man, go to the doctor!

[nyiregyhazi]

I will surely try to do your exercises but i do not want to force my thumb much because i already feel pain. i will probably order something like this one as i could not find a small plastic brace as you mentioned.
https://www.amazon.com/MedSpec-Tee-Pee-Thumb-Protector/dp/B002TTLV30/ref=sr_1_7?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1326743729&sr=1-7
And is it okay to take it off when i play piano or i have to wear it for several weeks?

These are the kinds of things I'm talking about.

https://www.rehabmart.com/product/oval8-finger-splint-kit-pediatric-or-regular-7464.html

Whether you need them or not depends on how far back the end joint of your thumb doubles back. If you can extend your thumb out into a normal position, you're probably fine. You just need to do while playing, rather than try to solidify the base of the thumb into a clenched position. I certainly wouldn't use anything that immobilises the base of your thumb at all, while playing. You need to be free to draw the thumb back slightly to prepare and then to lengthen it back out to depress each key. I don't know specifically what that particular splint is designed for, but I imagine it would do more harm than good whilst playing.

My exercises are certainly not designed for forcing anything, so please don't attempt to use them that way. If you have an injury that makes them painful to execute, either do them extremely lightly indeed, or stop completely it that too causes pain. The basic movement is just the simple action of extending the thumb out (basically like giving a thumbs up)- not anything forceful.

[musichopin]

These are the kinds of things I'm talking about.

https://www.rehabmart.com/product/oval8-finger-splint-kit-pediatric-or-regular-7464.html

Whether you need them or not depends on how far back the end joint of your thumb doubles back. If you can extend your thumb out into a normal position, you're probably fine. You just need to do while playing, rather than try to solidify the base of the thumb into a clenched position. I certainly wouldn't use anything that immobilises the base of your thumb at all, while playing. You need to be free to draw the thumb back slightly to prepare and then to lengthen it back out to depress each key. I don't know specifically what that particular splint is designed for, but I imagine it would do more harm than good whilst playing.

My exercises are certainly not designed for forcing anything, so please don't attempt to use them that way. If you have an injury that makes them painful to execute, either do them extremely lightly indeed, or stop completely it that too causes pain. The basic movement is just the simple action of extending the thumb out (basically like giving a thumbs up)- not anything forceful.

Okay i will start your exercises after my thumb feels more relaxed. Finally which size would you recommend of those braces? i see there are 12 different sizes so i am confused a bit. I will certainly get a brace because when i extend my hand i am unable to direct the tip of my thumb towards keyboard.