VIDEO: another Revolutionary...

[costicina]

  Well, I'll take the risk to  be stoned to death for posting in this board my  flubbed performance of this Etude      ….
But in my teens, when I had piano lessons, the Revolutionary was for me the epitome of ”beautiful and impossibile”. Restarting after many years to play the piano, I bet with myself that I would learn  it..
To some extent, I won that bet (I have to thank Birba and AJ for their precious advices; without them, I would not be able to  reach my goal).  

Now,  I  plead for your help to win another bet, i.e.:  IMPROVING  it!!!
Many thanks  in advance

Margherita

[pianowolfi]

I am sure Birba will do another video which will be much better than any comment or advice that I can give, but nevertheless I'll try. In my book it's very important to play the right hand octaves very melodically, try not to play them through attacking the keys relentlessly, vertically from above. There should be much legato in the right hand. Left hand needs work at a slow pace, it sounds a bit mushed. You are right in that you need positioning of the hand, of course, and keep aware of the harmonies, but many single notes are missing. As so often, we try to cover certain flaws with the pedal, I'd try to reduce it quite a bit, until you have got the left hand even and smooth.

[costicina]

Thank you for your advices!!! I'll keep on working at this piece, HS, slowly and WITHOUT pedal, as you suggest. RH needs a special attention (the octaves of the last section are a mess, I know).

I hope to post soon a better version....

I'm pervicacious, and  wanna win my bet          

Thank you again
Margherita

[ajspiano]

Without making comment on your video..

I'm steadily building a mountain of ideas about this piece based around flaws of mine I have had to sort out. I think I may eventually create a rev thread in the students corner in an effort to get it all out of my head - more of a random thoughts thing than lessons on it.

Sorry about not having posted anything for the diabolic suggestion yet, got caught up with arranging a Dave Mathews band song on Friday and had a big weekend. Went to "chill on" on Saturday - melbournes ice bar. It's -12 inside and the whole thing (chairs, bar, decorations etc.) is sculpted from ice.

[costicina]

Don't worry, AJ, playing the piano I've learned the virtue of patience...I'm happy you had a great weekend!!!

As for the Rev, I await eagerly your  thread in the Student corner, I'm sure it will be very helpful...

Ciao!
Margherita

[rachfan]

Hi Margherita,

Very good!  I believe you've taken this piece a long way since you went back to it.  And it appears that you have it memorized too.

By way of suggestions, these may help:

First, it looks to me that you are sitting too high on the bench.  If it's adjustable, you'd want to have your forearms more parallel to the floor, whereby the elbow should be on the same level as the key surfaces.  See if that feels better to you. If not, go back to where you were.  Remember though, the higher you sit, the drier the sound.  The reason is that you're striking from above rather than allowing gravity to assist you more in forming legato in the melody.

The second idea would be to practice slowly (both hands together is OK where you know the notes) while keeping your fingers firm.  Play at about f.  For this purpose of improving articulation, think of it more as mechanical practice rather than the type of practice focused on musicality.

Next, bring the metronome into it.  Set the metronome to a slow, comfortable pace at first. Your tempo is already steady, so that's not the purpose of the metronome now.  Rather, as you play with the metronome, you'll be watching for instances of slowing down and/or outright errors.  Slowing is a coping function when approaching a difficulty.  An error means the hand doesn't "know" its notes well enough yet.  So mark those spots where you slow down and/or stumble while keeping pace with the metronome.  Give extra repetitive practicing to those places that are exceptions.  Do these play-throughs several times.

End that session by shutting off the metronome and playing with musicality.  If any stumbles, carefully practice those spots again.  On repetitions, leave about 5 to 10 seconds of silence between each repetition.  It helps to avoid carelessness (which then has to be undone!) and allows you to ponder the sound of the correction you just made.

The next time you practice, start with slow mechanical articulation again with firm fingers.  Play with the metronome again once with the existing setting. If all goes well, move it up 2 or 3 notches at the most.  If that goes well, raise it another 2 or 3.  Once errors start creeping in, stop!  Drop back to a slower tempo and see if you can restore control and accuracy. Afterward, try playing with musicality at that speed to judge improvement.

Beyond that, in your regular practicing keep moving the metronome up a bit toward desired tempo.  One there, move the metronome speed beyond your target, by just a bit more.  That's your reserve, meaning you can play the piece even a bit faster than you need to.  Then turn the metronome off, do more musical playing, but always revert to slow practice as needed.  All this "back and forth" of drilling and playing should iron out the wrinkles, enable you to play evenly with dexterity, while attending to the musical elements of the piece.  Again, I think you're well on your way with this piece.  Keep up the good work! 

By the way, I last played this piece in 1963, almost 50 years ago.  How time flies.

David

[costicina]

I was going to regret at having posted my poor performance of this Etude, but now I know I did the right thing, since I’m getting such generous, helpful advices from you!!!
Thank you so much, David, you are, as always, most kind and generous… I’ll follow to the letter your suggestions, ironing all the many wrinkles there are in this piece.
I’m really, deeply grateful to you…
Ciao!!!
Margherita

P.S. Please, take in consideration the suggestion to make a CD with your repertoire of late romantic, underplayed composers; I think it'a great idea, and you have all the numbers to make a superb job!!!

[49410enrique]

i really can't offer anything more or better than what was said (gosh i log off for a few days the forum was all a frenzy with lots of activity!), this really looks like it is coming along, that is, as a 'work in progress' you should be commended on the effort and accomplishment you have made thus far, i am curious, so just a few questins if you'll indulge me and the others on here
how long exactly have you been 'seriously and consistently' working on this?
did you give your self an approximate timeline (that is, i will learn this piece in ____ number of months? if so what was your deadline and do you think you're on track to meet it?

my main reason for those questions is two fold, one, it can help us (and you) understand how much (or how little you are struggling with the work) or how efficient is your current approach, and two, i find that giving ourselves a self imposed deadline can really help push us and move us along towards completing the piece.

again great job and we're excited for you and want to be kept up to date on your progess.

a side note, i think i picked up you're tacking prokofiev op. 4 no. 4?  wow that is a great piece its on my 'someday' hit list so i'm bit jealous you're working it, i think i'll have to ask you for help and advice when i finally get around to it myself...

[costicina]

Thank you, Enrique!!!,

I’ll try to answer to your questions:  I tackled the Etude about two years ago (I restarted to play the piano three years ago), but the the best I could do was to  memorize the notes (the only esasy thing in this piece); otherwise, I wasn't able to play it from beginning to end without pain, stiffness and fatigue in LH, and gave up.

I re-studied it from scratch about one month ago, dividing it into sections (they are clearly defined and intuitive), paying attention to the suppleness and flexibility of the wrist, and trying to move the whole hand instead of reaching the notes with the fingers alone (I hope this makes sense to you).
I know that I’m far from performing it in a satisfactory way, but now at least  (and this is a big achievement for me), I can play it ten times in a row effortlesse, without tension or fatigue. To improve it I've given  myself  a deadline of a week: in this span of time, I'll focus on ironing the weak points of every section and above all, on practicing  with full concentration and awareness. So nex Monday I plan to post an improved Revolutionary (at least I hope so   )

Prokofiev is another big challenge; I don’t know how long it will take to learn it, but I’am stubborn and pervicacious, and sooner or later, I intend firmly to conquer the Devil…
I’ll let you know how it’s going. Give it a try, it's a cool piece, and so funny (I image) to play!!!

Ciao
Margherita

[birba]

[starstruck5]

Can't add anything to Birbas insightful video and other technical comments - all I can do is offer encouragement. You have it within you to play this Etude brilliantly I am sure.  Never forget the context either - this is an outpouring of anger and love for ones homeland -no matter how many times this has been played - this piece will never lose that original spark- and will outlive everyone on this forum.

I look forward to hearing take two. Well done so far. 10 out of 10 for effort!

[costicina]

Thank you soooo much for your kind encouragement, Starstruck5         !!!!!
It really motivates me, strenghtening my determination to tame this gorgeous, arduous piece...
I'll work hard all this week to improve it, doing  my best not to disappoint you...Let's hope everything will be ok!

Again, many thanks!!!

[candlelightpiano]

I just happened to see your thread here and that was lovely,Margherita! I enjoyed your play very much. Also enjoyed Birba's video very much, as I always do. Keep up the good work!

[ajspiano]

I got to watch your video properly just now, and birba's - can only echo his sentiments, many of which I surely need to work on myself.

I wondered what your LH fingering is in the first bars..   looks like ||: 2124 :|| ...maybe try 3124. I tried 2124 (on a desk mind you) and it feels a little strange to me, don't change it if it feels fine for you though..

Maybe you're only using 2 on the top Ab anyway? hard to tell at speed and with camera on the right hand side.

[costicina]

Thank you, Choo Choo!!! You can't image how your encouragements are motivating me...

To AJ: The LH fingering I use is 212431  24312 etc. I find it very comfortable

Margherita

[ajspiano]

The LH fingering I use is 212431  24312 etc. I find it very comfortable

yeah, so you're only using 2 on the top note of the phrase..  feel free to disregard my comment then.

[costicina]

I think it's Chopin original fingering (I found it in the Urtex of the Henle edition). In the Etudes especially, I was said that it's always better to stick to his fingering, instead of Cortot's or other revisors ones....

[ajspiano]

I think it's Chopin original fingering (I found it in the Urtex of the Henle edition). In the Etudes especially, I was said that it's always better to stick to his fingering, instead of Cortot's or other revisors ones....

PS edition says thats chopins fingering..   I was just concerned with using the 2 further on in the run down the keys, thats what feels weird to me.

[costicina]

Birba,

I don't know why (am I ageing?) I missed the video about the Rev you were so kind to make for me (BTW, I'm Margherita, Costanza is my daughter   )

I'm working hard at this Etude these days.
Your video is a great help: you saw excactly the weakest points, and I'm tryng to "iron" them in the way you suggested...
Nex week I hope to post a better version
I'm deeply, sincerely grateful to you


Margherita