Chopin Ballade no 2 - Agitato (in the coda)

[hbofinger]

I've got a question for those of you who have mastered the second ballade by Chopin:

I am now working through code (Agitato, the last two pages in most editions I have seen), and what I have noticed is that in the fingering of the two-note chords played in the right hand, on repeated chords there is a constant swap between the first and the second finger. This is both in the Schirmer edition and the  version I downloaded here on Pianostreet, though the fingerings differ otherwise.

I find it much easier to play without swapping the thumb and the index finger (typical example would be the third measure of the Agitato).

Am I committing a crime that will haunt me when I am trying to get up to speed? In fact, I find much of the printed fingering awkward, and wonder if I am missing something....

Thanks for any advice...

[birba]

If you can play it up to speed without resorting to 2-1 2-1, go for it.  Whichever comes out the clearest.  I could never do that without tensing in the upper arm.

[hbofinger]

birba,

you answered my question. Since I am only starting to work on the section, I have no idea what it feels like when it is up to speed. I think it would be more prudent to go with the written fingering rather than to have to learn it all over again.

Thanks!

[birba]

Remember when you are slow-practising, exaggerate that articulation between the 2 and the thumb.

[megadodd]

I havn't played the piece. But I sure know that on other occasions I rarely enjoy the way it feels when I change the suggested fingering from multiple editions. So I tend to stick to it even though it feels akward in the begining.

[birba]

Fingering can be very problematic -  studying the music at one tempo is one thing, at another, you almost always have to change.  That's why it's good to get viable feed-back from good editions.  I always try to play a fingery passage up to tempo to figure out the fingering and then take it over slow.  For example the last movt. of op. 35 of Chopin.   There are spots I STILL can't figure out the best fingering!!!!!!

[hbofinger]

Thanks for all those replies.

Recently I ran across a similar issue with Beethoven's tempest 1st movement. And two contributors from this forum provided alternate fingering for the passage that I had difficulty with. Guess what - they were excellent suggestions, and completely solved my problem at speed, removing the one last bottleneck I had!

Hats off to pianostreet.com...!

[tomoglo]

I may be resuscitating an old thread, but I found it completely similar to the problems I had initially with the Coda. Luckily, my professor showed me the light in regards to the last 2 pages of the Ballade.

She recommended that I actually play in a relaxed manner. This manner would involve having the wrists come down every single chord. The wrist would never bounce up unless there was a giant skip, but other than that relax the wrists and forearms and play as loud as you can by dropping down on each chord. Each chord should be played slowly and in a disconnected manner so that you can get a feel for the bass.

As for the bass fingering, I would stick to the the usual 1-5 for the initial octave and the 1-5, 2-3 that follows after. You are not doing anything wrong by improvising the fingerings, but by retaining the old fingers you kind of get the feel for a slight bounce after every octave.

Make sure your right hand does not stiffen up. If you stiffen up the hand and the forearm itself you will have virtually no stamina to get through the last couple of measures involving the reiteration of the presto con fuoco section.

Remember that in the first couple of measures within the Coda the Soprano should be heard within all the passages. If the Soprano is lost, then you won't be able to make the other voices blend quite nicely.

To wrap it up, remember to relax the forearms, drop down the wrists on each chord and have them low. The wrist should be lower than the fingers on the piano keyboard slightly. Each chord is played in a disconnected fashion and then gradually increase the speed by intervals. Never, ever attempt to go faster than what is necessary. If there is tension in your arms, immediately stop. My professor always likes to compare this method to building a house. "If you keep constructing the little parts of the house, one by one, you get a grandeur house that is brilliant due to all the time invested in constructing in it. However, if you don't take time to build the same house it will collapse under it's own weight and you will have to start over again."

Good luck! I am currently practicing it as well!