Reading bpms

[sirgreendown]

In a score I have of Chopin's Op. 69 No. 1 Waltz, the written tempo is lento (which I gather to be between 40 to 60 bpm), but the listed bpm in parenthesis next to it says 138 bpm for every quarter note.

If I set my metronome to 138 bpm per quarter note, it sounds much too fast for the piece.

How should it be read?

I know this must be a really juvenile question, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[ajspiano]

This is the tempo marking on my score also. First person I looked at on youtube was playing at around 120 - listen to some recordings and see what you like. You don't have to play it exactly at the marked tempo. Your enjoyment is of higher importance that chopin's intention - unless you get your enjoyment out of playing as chopin intended.

[sirgreendown]

Thanks for the reply.

But what I'm confused about, though, is that it says lento, which is much slower than 130.

I know that in the end, I should use the tempo that appeals most to me; I just want to understand why it says lento, but has such a high bpm.

[werq34ac]

Well not all of Chopin's metronome markings are set in stone, but I actually like the 138 tempo. I think the challenge of it is making the piece sound lento within the 138 tempo marking. Rubato will most certainly help.


I think it's important to remember that Lento does not mean 40-60, but rather it means slow. I think you should get out of your assumption that each tempo marking has a certain range of bpm in which it should be played. Take the Op. 10/4 etude, metronome marking is 88 but its marked presto rather than andante like your metronome probably says.

Largo DOES NOT MEAN 40-60, and Allegro DOES NOT MEAN 120-160

[ajspiano]

yes, the tempo marking is relative to the content of the compostion in that if its all semi-quavers it will certainly give the impression of fast compared to something that is mostly crotchets if they are both played at the same bpm..

[brogers70]

Thanks for the reply.

But what I'm confused about, though, is that it says lento, which is much slower than 130.

I know that in the end, I should use the tempo that appeals most to me; I just want to understand why it says lento, but has such a high bpm.

I suspect it is Lento if you feel it as one beat to the measure, rather than three. In that case if Lento = 40-60/min, then 3 x about 46 = 138 bpm.

[timothy42b]

I suspect it is Lento if you feel it as one beat to the measure, rather than three. In that case if Lento = 40-60/min, then 3 x about 46 = 138 bpm.

Correct.  Waltzes should be felt in one, not in three.  They should also be slow enough you could dance to them, if you knew how.  <grin> 

[werq34ac]

I think we are forgetting however, that 138 is still quite fast, and almost sounds allegretto. Saying that it's lento because if it's in one, it's around 40, is an oversimplification. Think about it this way, The minute waltz should be quite fast, perhaps Dotted half=90ish. However, according to everyone's metronome, that's only an andante. However, the waltz should be allegro, which means (according to your simplification) that it should be at least 120 to the dotted-half.

I think the key point here is that it's a waltz. Waltzes are meant to be danced to and thus cannot be too slow to the point of where dancers are forced to be suspended in awkward positions for long periods of time. Since this is a waltz to be danced to, one should always keep the flow going, however, Chopin does write Lento. I think that what he means by Lento is that it should be as slow as possible while still maintaining the waltz feel.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

[brogers70]

I think the key point here is that it's a waltz. Waltzes are meant to be danced to and thus cannot be too slow to the point of where dancers are forced to be suspended in awkward positions for long periods of time. Since this is a waltz to be danced to, one should always keep the flow going, however, Chopin does write Lento. I think that what he means by Lento is that it should be as slow as possible while still maintaining the waltz feel.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I don't think you are wrong; what approximate tempo in bpm (either in 1 or in 3) would you suggest would meet the criteria you've specified? Would it not fall into the range of 40-60 measures per second?

[timothy42b]

I think the key point here is that it's a waltz. Waltzes are meant to be danced to and thus cannot be too slow to the point of where dancers are forced to be suspended in awkward positions for long periods of time. Since this is a waltz to be danced to, one should always keep the flow going, however, Chopin does write Lento. I think that what he means by Lento is that it should be as slow as possible while still maintaining the waltz feel.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I don't think you're wrong.  You might be missing something.  Waltzes vary.  In particular there are national character aspects.  Think of a Viennese waltz.  That instantly conveys a tempo and a swing rhythm. 

[werq34ac]

I don't think you are wrong; what approximate tempo in bpm (either in 1 or in 3) would you suggest would meet the criteria you've specified? Would it not fall into the range of 40-60 measures per second?

I actually really like the 138 bpm that Chopin wrote. It maintains the sense of the dance-like waltz, and yet the music is written in a way that it still sounds Lento to me.

I don't think you're wrong.  You might be missing something.  Waltzes vary.  In particular there are national character aspects.  Think of a Viennese waltz.  That instantly conveys a tempo and a swing rhythm. 

I'm not exactly sure of the differences between all the different waltzes, but aren't all waltzes still dances?


In general, I feel we shouldn't give much merit to what our metronomes claim a largo to be. Also, One shouldn't consider a metronome marking to be absolute law. I'm sure Chopin wouldn't mind if someone played it a tad slower than 138 but it probably wouldn't work any faster.