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Christmas Music for Piano: Jeffrey Biegel Plays Sleigh Ride

Are you tired of choirs singing carols? If so, get into Christmas mode with some solo piano instead. Enjoy Leroy Anderson’s Sleigh Ride performed by American pianist Jeffrey Biegel. Read more >>

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drazh
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« on: January 21, 2012, 06:55:13 AM »

Hi
What is the difference between steinway . Stairway and sons . And  stairway and sons fa..... I couldn't read exactly.
Thanks
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pianoplayjl
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 09:08:12 AM »

They are all from the same company 'Steinway and Sons Co.'

Steinway usually refers to the grand pianos. Steinway and Sons I think refers to the company itself and the Steinway and sons Factory refers to where the pianos were made. I think they were first made in Hamburg, but I'm not  sure. They moved their headquarters to somewhere in the USA.

JL
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drazh
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 02:00:45 PM »

Hi
I saw that in tv  .it was not factory it was something like fabrini or something like that written in italic
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willvenables
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 03:53:58 PM »

If you have spelt what you saw... then Stairway & Sons Fabrini (or similar) may have been a play on the name Steinway & Sons - when it is not actually Steinway. A common marketing ploy for cheap pianos is to make up a name that sounds similar (often ridiculously similar) to a famous make, or a composer even. Stein... Bech... Bose... - heck., there is a Senteinway, Bechendorfer etc. entirely manufactured names. I have seen a take on Baldwin also, same typeface, one letter was different. Imagine looking at an "aston marten".

Sometimes the pianos with a fake European make are actually half decent, it is just a shame they had to make up a name to convince people it may have been something more than it is.

Was this piano on tv, concert hall, school, shop, home??? Was it old?
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iansinclair
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2012, 03:18:50 AM »

Steinway (and sons etc.) was started in New York -- well, Brooklyn, USA, to be exact.  A cousin started the Hamburg factory somewhat later.  The New York facility was fascinating -- company housing, lumberyard, saw mills, company store, the whole thing.

A great great aunt of mine (Fannie Morris Smith) worked for Steinway around 1890 to 1900; teaching, concerts and tours, lecturing.  And came up with the bright idea of having noted artists endorse the company ("Joe Smith plays only Steinway").  Clever...
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Ian
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 05:12:57 PM »

You may run across a piano labeled "Steinweg". The Steinweg family manufactured pianos in Germany (what became later East Germany). Heinrich Steinweg (or better known as "Henry Steinway") left for the U.S. during the industrial revolution, where, as mentioned in an earlier post, he built the current Steinway & Sons company in New York. Later, another factory was added in Hamburg by the same company. Though the name is of German origin, the anglicized Steinway & Sons name is also being used for the Hamburg factory.

The original Steinweg company continued to produce pianos on their own, but were not in any way associated with the new company based in New York. When the East opened up, Steinweg rebranded their pianos as "Grotian". So when you see a Grotian, it is from the factory of the same family that Henry Steinway came from back in the 1800's, but is not in any way associated.

My piano technician told me a funny anecdote: He was at this person's house, and was tuning a Steinweg. The owner looked at him and said that this was a German Steinway. He said to her no, it wasn't, and she told him yes it was, he did not know anything about pianos, AND THREW HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE! Apparently a salesperson had convinced her she was buying a German Steinway!
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keys60
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 11:00:48 PM »

Steinway NY is in Astoria, Queens, NY. Not Brooklyn. I grew up there. Sohmer, for that matter, was down the block, a fairly major competitor. Unfortunately, when I was a child, mom and dad opted for the Sohmer. :-\Still a decent piano.
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pytheamateur
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2012, 12:40:00 AM »

While we are on the topic of Steinway, why are so many people saying a Hamburg Steinway is better than its New York counterpart?  Also, is the retail price of a Hamburg Steinway more expensive?

I don't seem to have heard anyone (not at least on this forum) that prefers a New York Steinway, apart from Horowitz.   

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Beethoven - Sonata in C sharp minor, Op 27 No 12
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, Nocturn in C sharp minor, Op post
Brahms - Op 118, Nos 2 & 3
iansinclair
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2012, 09:16:19 PM »

Sorry... I should have said Astoria.  But I'm not from there, and the Isle of Long is a mystery to me, best to be looked at from the train windows...

I'll vote for the New York Steinways vs. the Hamburg ones -- although truth to tell there shouldn't be that much difference, at least before the mid 1920s.  However Horowitz I am most assuredly not!
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Ian
starstruck5
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2012, 10:01:16 PM »

Sorry... I should have said Astoria.  But I'm not from there, and the Isle of Long is a mystery to me, best to be looked at from the train windows...

I'll vote for the New York Steinways vs. the Hamburg ones -- although truth to tell there shouldn't be that much difference, at least before the mid 1920s.  However Horowitz I am most assuredly not!

In actual fact you are better than Horowitz - even a beginner is better than Horowitz - because sadly he is no longer with us - Admittedly when he was alive he was very special!
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costicina
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2012, 05:51:42 AM »

I'll vote for the Hamburg Steinway...
for the simple reason that I owe one  Wink: a bit old (about 30 years) but still a wonderful instument

Marg
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drazh
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2012, 08:03:23 AM »

If you have spelt what you saw... then Stairway & Sons Fabrini (or similar) may have been a play on the name Steinway & Sons - when it is not actually Steinway. A common marketing ploy for cheap pianos is to make up a name that sounds similar (often ridiculously similar) to a famous make, or a composer even. Stein... Bech... Bose... - heck., there is a Senteinway, Bechendorfer etc. entirely manufactured names. I have seen a take on Baldwin also, same typeface, one letter was different. Imagine looking at an "aston marten".

Sometimes the pianos with a fake European make are actually half decent, it is just a shame they had to make up a name to convince people it may have been something more than it is.

Was this piano on tv, concert hall, school, shop, home??? Was it old?
It was a Daniel barenboim recital playing Liszt .so not a fake piano
Thanks
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pytheamateur
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 08:45:27 AM »

I'll vote for the Hamburg Steinway...
for the simple reason that I owe one  Wink: a bit old (about 30 years) but still a wonderful instument

Marg


Oh, how I envy you!
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Beethoven - Sonata in C sharp minor, Op 27 No 12
Chopin - Fantasie Impromptu, Nocturn in C sharp minor, Op post
Brahms - Op 118, Nos 2 & 3
costicina
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 09:18:48 AM »

 Embarrassed  Embarrassed Embarrassed
Sometimes I think I don't deserve it...I feel guilty seeing so many brilliant pianists here in PS who have to content themselves with poor instruments, acustic or digital...
Anyway, it's also an incentive to do my best to improve  Wink

Marg
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derschoenebahnhof
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2012, 08:30:46 PM »

Hmm, I think Stairway and Sons build staircases  Wink

CG
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drazh
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 10:31:44 AM »

I saw that again it was fabrini. What's that?
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pianolive
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 06:50:56 PM »

hbofinger,

Steinweg was located in Braunschweig and was ran by Theodor Steinweg after the family had emigrated to America. He did not want to go there, but after some years he finally went. He sold the Steinweg company to 3 employees, one of them was Grotrian and later Grotrian took over all.
On the old Grotrian was written on the iron frame: Grotrian - Steinweg Nachf. which means Steinwegs successor.
On the fallboard the name was Grotrian-Steinweg, which later was forbidden. I think Steinway got them to trial or something, so now it is only Grotrian.
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indianajo
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2012, 02:56:19 AM »

I like the US Steinway pianos.  LP recordings from RCA & Colombia rarely had anything else.  I finally bought one in 2010, a 1941 40" console with damaged veneer. It says "Steinway and Sons". The previous year same model was badged "Steinway", there was a picture of one in Westchester Cty NY on E-bay.  I own both a 1941 Steinway and a 1982 Sohmer.  The Steinway holds tune better.  The Sohmer has a middle pedal that holds the dampers up on the left half.  Both have lovely tone. I believe the Sohmer is a production copy of the 1941 console, excepting the 5 layer pin block that affects the loose tuning. 
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tannertuner
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2012, 11:33:40 PM »

While we are on the topic of Steinway, why are so many people saying a Hamburg Steinway is better than its New York counterpart?  Also, is the retail price of a Hamburg Steinway more expensive?

I don't seem to have heard anyone (not at least on this forum) that prefers a New York Steinway, apart from Horowitz.   



Horowitz played New York Steinways. I've tuned his favorite that was a wedding gift from the Steinway family in 1941, and I've had my hands on a second one that he was using for performances at the time of his death. Both New York Steinways. Check out a book by Franz Mohr called "My Life with the Great Pianists" or something to that effect. There is also a youtube video of Mr. Mohr giving a presentation at Steinway Hall.

If you hear someone try to claim that a Hamburg Steinway is better than a NY Steinway, always remember that we Americans seem to have the misconception that Americans somehow can't do anything as well as anyone else. But it's just not the case. One is not better than the other. They are simply different. Some people will say something else is "better" when it is simply "different".

Hamburg Steinways are approached somewhat differently in the manufacturing process. First, the hammers used are hard pressed vs the soft pressed hammer in the New York Steinway. Where that matters is in the voicing. A hard pressed hammer starts out brilliant and is voiced down. A soft pressed hammer is built up using a hardening solution, typically lacquer. The different processes produce a different type of tone. Personally, I believe the New York hammer gives the artist a wider palate of tonal color.  Second, the actions are made by different manufacturers. New York manufactures its own action parts out of maple, while Hamburg outsources its parts to Renner, and are made of hornbeam. Hornbeam is slightly less rigid and this difference will have an effect on tone as well. Hamburg uses Roslau wire for strings while New York uses Mapes wire. Roslau wire is metrically measured, vs Mapes being measured based on the inch scale. The differences will produce a slightly different scaling.  Hamburg instruments spend a bit more time in the factory, and will therefore more finished when they arrive at the dealership than will a New York Steinway. But you pay for that difference in the higher price of the Hamburg. Alternatively, dealers of New York Steinways have plenty of margin with which to hire a trained technician to custom voice and regulate each instrument for the individual end user's preference. An instrument that will be in a small carpeted room shouldn't be voiced the same as if it were going in a small performance venue. One instrument might be voiced more mellow for chamber music while another more brilliant for concerto.

So, New York or Hamburg - viva la difference!
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tannertuner
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« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2012, 11:39:27 PM »

Oh, and back during the CBS years, a large decal of the simple "STEINWAY" name was placed on the fallboard of New York concert & artist pianos so that the name could be plainly seen from the audience or on television. But the company itself has always been Steinway & Sons.
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iansinclair
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 01:51:25 AM »

Yes, Horowitz... and so, for that matter, did Paderewski and Rubinstein.  Among others.  In fact, Steinway, in the person of my great aunt Fanny Morris Smith, originated the whole I idea of well known artists endorsing this piano or that one.  At the time it was a new advertising gimmick -- and it worked just fine!  The beautiful old A in my living room was given by Steinway to her in 1898.  It has had a new set of strings, and been carefully regulated to suit the room -- and at the grand old age of 114 is still going strong.
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Ian
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