This is what I imagine when ______ say their hobby is challenging..

[ajspiano]

gamers

[fftransform]

A mathematician would say the same thing about your hobby.

[lostinidlewonder]

Lol funny. I remember in the 90s when Street Fighter 2 was one of the most popular arcade games, I wasted so much coin on that. I would often challenge other players but many of them crushed me. The Street Fighter world championships really shows how seemingly simple button pressing can be an artform that can earn you good cash The precise timing and reflex in expert gaming I feel is much harder than piano playing, although I feel strong sight readers are on par. Try to get the Donkey Kong Kill screen for example, bloody impossible.

[ajspiano]

A mathematician would say the same thing about your hobby.

And yet finding something like this took me a few seconds, and it is certainly not an isolated idea
 -
''Piano instruction is thought to enhance the brain's 'hard-wiring' for spatial-temporal reasoning, or the ability to visualize ratios, fractions, proportions and thinking in space and time,'' - Gordon Shaw, professor of physics.

And, time and time again advanced mathematical theory is applied to the understanding of music, dating back centuries to the modern day..

Additionally, these advanced mathematical ideas can be applied simultaneously with creative ideas and the physical challenge of playing the instrument.

____________

anyway, it wasnt having a go at gamers, its just funny, and I know plenty of gamers who are great muso's and vice versa.

@lostinidlewonder
Do you suppose if you applied the same principles and practice methods as in learning the piano to the learning of the physical challenge of street fighter it would take you as long to master as the piano does? and is there not an increased difficulty because in piano there is a precise control on the the speed of key depression required? rather than just the timing with which keys are depressed..

[lostinidlewonder]

Do you suppose if you applied the same principles and practice methods as in learning the piano to the learning of the physical challenge of street fighter it would take you as long to master as the piano does?

I played SF2 regulary for at least 8 or so years and could beat the average player. Playing computer games at a masters level I feel requires a talent which I just don't have much of! Piano can be planned and take your time, but with computer games you face randomness which you need good instincts to be able to react to perfectly. I can see a connection between sight reading and computer game playing however, in sight reading often you are faced with unknown situations and have to deal with them immediately,  but fighting games like SF2 played against high level human players, there are so many reactions you need to be better than your opponent, if you do one mistake it is all over! Often against strong players I would have them almost dead but always lose, I could never pick up on why, but they always had one up on me every time. When I watch SF championships on youtube it becomes clearer how precise their timing/reaction is, it is almost like a pro sport star. I don't think I would ever get a Kill screen on games like Donkey Kong as well no matter how much I practice, that marathon of timing and accuracy just evades me!

[ajspiano]

I played SF2 regulary for at least 8 or so years and could beat the average player. Playing computer games at a masters level I feel requires a talent which I just don't have much of! Piano can be planned and take your time, but with computer games you face randomness which you need good instincts to be able to react to perfectly. I can see a connection between sight reading and computer game playing however, in sight reading often you are faced with unknown situations and have to deal with them immediately,  but fighting games like SF2 played against high level human players, there are so many reactions you need to be better than your opponent, if you do one mistake it is all over! Often against strong players I would have them almost dead but always lose, I could never pick up on why, but they always had one up on me every time. When I watch SF championships on youtube it becomes clearer how precise their timing/reaction is, it is almost like a pro sport star. I don't think I would ever get a Kill screen on games like Donkey Kong as well no matter how much I practice, that marathon of timing and accuracy just evades me!

fair enough i think..  The closest approximation that I have to this is when I've sat in on live performances of songs that I have not rehearsed and never heard previously. It takes lightning fast and accurate aural skills that can be immediately transferred to the instrument, and in a creative way.

Still no competitive element though, though i'll admit I've seen some world class saxophonists "battle" - in the sense that that they would play an improvised phrase of a short length, then the other would copy and add few notes at the end.. they would go on taking it in turns until one of them played a wrong note, or messed up the timing or anything else. Was very impressive.

[costicina]

I noticed that very often musicians or piano players have a true talent or pasion for mathematics or its relative applications...My math skills are non-existent...perhaps that's why I'm and will ever be a poor piano player       

Marg

[williampiano]

I think I'm pretty good at the piano, but I would hardly consider my math skills proficient. Math has always been the toughest subject for me, and my least favorite too.

.... and don't worry costicina, you are a very good piano player!

[costicina]

           Too kind of you, William!!!!

[unholeee]

''Piano instruction is thought to enhance the brain's 'hard-wiring' for spatial-temporal reasoning,

ugh really? i played one of those pc (dr something) brain training games and that was easily the worst area (well, only bad area) in the graphs. I blame fluoride. I can't read maps either. I get lost in my own city.. off topic, im unsure that's related to the same area.

Games, i find are reaction / prediction / baiting your opponent into certain movements / situations, etc. Timing is never constant. Unless you are comparing piano to a game like guitar hero ;>

I noticed that very often musicians or piano players have a true talent or pasion for mathematics

I took advanced maths as a student, I can barely time and play ha.

[fftransform]

And yet finding something like this took me a few seconds, and it is certainly not an isolated idea

A- I don't play video games.
B- Find the Etale cohomology of GL(4)/Z_p

There's nothing that can't be studied by mathematics.  Video games could be studied in the context of mathematics.  So could beer pong.  Beer pong is not as difficult as Topos Theory.  Your "point" is a non-point.