myself, a clumsy composer

[paris]

hi, i have a big doubt about this-well, i have many pieces i've composed in my head ,and i know exactly how i want them to sound. and i repeat them from memory but not always on the same way. i mean, basic is the same, but sometimes i change left hand chords (i don't change the melody), or add thrill, or some new little phrases...

what i wanted to ask, how to put this on a paper???

i've tried so many times, but i often get tired of writing down it  (because, i don't know exactly how to do that), so i just leave the damn papers and continue playin.

i enjoy composing, and i'd really like to learn how to do it properly.

in my school we have harmony (don't know how to say in english), contrapunct (polifony),  (only they teach is-you mustn't do paralel 5, not some intervals-rules, boring rules    )  none of them teach HOW TO MAKE A PIECE!!!
not for vocal, not for a singer, not for choir, just nice beautiful piece for piano?!

a.m.d.

[Max]

Have you tried using a program like Finale Notepad? It's free, and you can hear the notes as you input them to score, it makes it much easier.

[Daevren]

The music in your head is 'worthless' if you can't get it on paper. Its only a first step.

Counterpoint(contrapunct) and harmony are very important. Yes, it does not teach you how to compose a piece. You isolate elements to practice them. If a harmony exercise involved rhythm then it would be harder to learn anything from it.

You can study form. Depending on your interest. There are books on fugues, sonatas, binary forms etc. Also, analyse other people's music.

There are also some books that focus on composing itself, not some element. Schoenberg has a book on this topic. No harmony or counterpoint, alot of examples from Beethoven sonata's about structure, form, development, both on small scale and large scale.

[paris]

guess i need more time and more patience with it.  

where i can get program Finale Notepad? maybe this will be a soulution for short time, but i'd really like to learn composing on 'classic' way.  

thanx for advices
a.m.d.

[DarkWind]

where i can get program Finale Notepad? maybe this will be a soulution for short time, but i'd really like to learn composing on 'classic' way.

"A rolling stone gathers no moss."


Anyways, buy Sibelius, it's worth the money. As for the counterpoint and such, it gives you basics and rules to go by. Parallel 5ths, etc., are something of Bach's time mostly, and can be broken if you wish to. Music is very difficult to compose, but can give great results.

[mtmccarthy]

Hm... were not parallel fifths and octaves generally shunned in traditional counterpoint? I could have sworn that was the case when I was reading Fux's Study of Counterpoint. But then again, Bach's Notebook for AM had plenty (if I remember all these things correctly)...

Walter Piston's books on Harmony and Counterpoint are supposed to be pretty good for learning. I've gone through a few chapters of Harmony so far...

What does everyone think about working through the exercises at the end of each chapter? I noticed they actually got me writing notes down on paper and thinking about progressions, if anything.

For those who don't like Hanon: do you think it is like doing Hanon for composition, or is it fruitful?

[ted]

Dabozg:

Had you considered developing your improvisation as a compositional method ? If your ideas change from day to day perhaps improvisation may initially be the way to go. There are many roads to musical creation. Software, theory, rules and so on may or may not help you. All the equipment and theory in the world will not make you a creative musician. These things can only help the ideas come out, not create them in the first place. You would be wise to listen to those sounds in your head, what Poulenc called the "little voice within you"; in the end it is worth more than equipment and theories.

Clumsiness is not in itself a bad thing. Getting these sounds in written, communicable form is mostly impossible and often a struggle, even for people of great talent. The act itself is clumsy by its nature.

[Daevren]

Mtmccarthy, its very useful. This is totally something else than piano technique. Those exercises force you to think in a particular way. But more important, if you do them you will learn a sense of key, of tonal harmony, of counterpoint. Its like learning a language.

Its very helpful to know how harmony and counterpoint work and to practice those techniques in exercises.

Yes, not all masterworks follow the rules, and some rules are certainly questionable. But in general, if a masterwork breaks a rule it does it for a reason, ie not to break another rule. You must not only learn the rules but also why they are there. And if you learn them you will also know when you can or must break them.