Teachers, how do you introduce the minor scales?

[coffee_guy]

I was curious to see how some of the teachers here introduce the minor scales.
Basically, my teacher asks me to learn both harmonic and & melodic at the same time. One week he will assign me say “E harmonic minor” and “e melodic minor”, then the following week assign me the “g harmonic and melodic” if I have the previous ones down well enough.

I feel like learning both harmonic and melodic simultaneously has been a little tough for me to retain and differentiate between the too. I honestly wish I was just doing one at a time. I never really said anything to my teacher about it. I really don’t often question his teaching methods. I am just worried about retention of scales I am not using practically in songs. Plus I feel like I am practicing scales for a huge part of my available practice time. Maybe 45 minutes of my daily 2 hours.

I mean, there are still a handful of major scale keys I have not even learned any pieces in, nor do I think I am ready to. I am still a beginner and the keys I play in are limited to C,F,G,Bb,D,A, and maybe Eb. A & E flat are pushing it right now. So I know all my major scales by routine, and now am learning both versions of all these minor scales. I have not even been playing a year. I am starting to feel overwhelmed.

Anyway, I was hoping for some feedback. Thanks.

[unholeee]

not a teacher but I was explained minors are 3 semitones down from the major. d major -> b minor.
melodic sounds very similar to mono hence one way and was easier for me to differentiate after thinking this. harmonic with a raised 7th, melodic with raised 6th and 7th.

[cjp_piano]

It depends on the student, but I usually just teach natural minor first, starting with A minor. Relating it to the major key seems to work. Usually we do a few minor scales (only the natural minor form) before doing melodic or harmonic.

[pianoplayjl]

I was taught that minor scales sound different to major scales i.e. Major sounds happy and minor scales sound sad. The 7th note is always raised a semitone even though the accidental is not mentioned in the key signature. The minor scale is related to a major scale, which the tonic note you play 4 semitones up.

JL

[cjp_piano]

I was taught that minor scales sound different to major scales i.e. Major sounds happy and minor scales sound sad. The 7th note is always raised a semitone even though the accidental is not mentioned in the key signature. The minor scale is related to a major scale, which the tonic note you play 4 semitones up.

JL

The 7th note is NOT always raised. That's why we play natural melodic minor where it's raised going up and lowered going down.

Coffee guy - If I were your teacher, I would make sure you were comfortable with one scale, and just one form of the scale (melodic, for example). To do this, I would have you play different patterns, not just up a few octaves and back down, but other things like broken chords and things. I would have you improvise in that key as well. This makes it more practical instead of just "Ok, this is the scale, practice it!"

If I were YOU, I would go ahead and tell these things to my teacher. I would tell him/her that I felt rushed  through them and that I was spending too much time practicing scales. Be honest!

[ajspiano]

I would talk to your teacher about it..

He may think that you are comfortable with it and coping fine and so continues to pile on more..  where as you likely need to either slow down or develop a strategy for learning them faster, both of which are solutions that your teacher should be able to help with.

[1piano4joe]

My last lesson:

The D Minor scale is relative to F major; both scales have one flat.

D Natural minor:

1. Right Hand only one octave up and down. Very slowly and with traditional fingering.

2. Left Hand only the same as above.

3. Hands together one octave up and down. Again very slowly.

Always legato when first learning them.

D Harmonic Minor-Same procedure as above.

D Melodic Minor- Same procedure as above.

Finally, my students play all three one octave in rotation starting with the Natural minor, then the Harmonic minor and finally the melodic minor. I have them repeat this several times.

The scales are only 4 measures long each and written in only 1 clef with right hand fingering above and left hand fingering below. So all three forms of minor scales fit in just three lines.

They are required to memorize the fingering especially the location of the fourth finger of each hand.

I have them find other minor keys for given major keys.

Hope this helps, Joe

[pianoplayjl]

The 7th note is NOT always raised. That's why we play natural melodic minor where it's raised going up and lowered going down.

I know, I was refering to Harmonic minor scales where the 7th nite is always an accidental.

JL

[cjp_piano]

I know, I was refering to Harmonic minor scales where the 7th nite is always an accidental.

JL

Ok, sorry. That's not what you said 

[keypeg]

I like understanding patterns in things I am learning as opposed to memorizing chains of notes and fingerings.  Thus a natural minor scale is the major scale started on the 6th note but otherwise the same (C major, A natural minor; D major, B natural minor etc.).  A harmonic minor is the same as the natural minor except that the 7th note is raised a half step, which makes it a semitone from the tonic.  The melodic minor has the 6th & 7th raised going up, and sounds like a natural minor going down.  That's one set of patterns.

Another one I learned is that fingering has to do with piano key patterns, and these in turn have to do with our hands having long and short fingers.  The fingering is set out to be convenient.  I think there are 3 (4?) groups.  If you get the feel for those groups and explore, then you can start getting them in a practical way for playing.

Those are the things that helped me as a student.

[virtuoso80]

I reach minors almost immediately. After showing them their first major scale, my usual speil to the kids goes something like this: "So, like I said this is called a major scale. Why is it major? What does that mean? Well, the two things we usually talk about in music today are major and something else called minor. So, as you know, here is what C major sounds like (play some examples), but here is what C minor sounds like (play some examples). How would you describe the sound difference?"

...I also like to transpose some stuff into minor, like "Happy Birthday" or "When the Saints go Marching In", kids usually get a kick out of hearing what they sound like in minor!

Then, after I show them A minor, I'll usually say something like, "Hmm...that's weird. C major and A minor use the exact same keys, don't they? How come they sound so different?" From here we'll get into the concept of half-steps and whole-steps, and how you can do a major or minor scale starting form any key. The following week, I might then introduce harmonic and melodic minor.

[virtuoso80]

I was taught that minor scales sound different to major scales i.e. Major sounds happy and minor scales sound sad.

I actually make it a point to question this, especially with minor. Does minor HAVE to sound sad? It can sound other ways too, and I usually like to demonstrate that for my students.