"Boring" Sonata by a Great Composer?

[richterfan1]

My ex professor told me: Shubert's sonatas are kind of boring, especially this one, Why are Shubert's Sonatas So underrated? Great Sviatoslav Richter played them and admired Schubert So much, In the enigma(documentary about the greatest pianist ever) hes quote: Many people have told me: "How can you play Schubert's Sonatas, they are so tedious.. Play Schuman's Sonatas!"  -" I will play what I like and if I enjoy it, public will too"

Is this Sonata boring to you? If it is, you could explain why?

[thalbergmad]

My ex professor told me: Shubert's sonatas are kind of boring, especially this one

Then you should be grateful that he is your ex professor.

Thal

[starstruck5]

Great composers rarely write bad music, that is why they are considered great.  I can't say I like the Alkan Sonata much -but is Alkan considered great ? Also I think you have to forgive a few dodgy works early on in a composers career.

Schubert is often accused of writing overlong pieces -but I don't think the A Minor Sonata boring -or any of his works -

[49410enrique]

the tchaikovsky piano sonata somes to mind, what a let down....

[richterfan1]

Then you should be grateful that he is your ex professor.

Thal

SHE* was a great pianist she is 63 years old now, but im talking generally thal...

[richterfan1]

Schubert is often accused of writing overlong pieces -but I don't think the A Minor Sonata boring -or any of his works -

Agree with that, Hes Sonatas are long, but beautiful!!!

[birba]

Berg?  But maybe I'm just ignorant.

[j_menz]

I have to agree with the Tchaikovsky.  Even to this day I can't help but feel there must be something everyone's missing (including me) - it couldn't possibly be that awful.

[werq34ac]

I actually am not a huge fan of Schubert. I know I should be, but his music, like someone said, is just too damn long. And a bit repetitive. I can't stand the Op.90 Impromptus..

But I don't mind sitting through a Schubert Sonata in concert at all. His music is beautiful, just.. a bit long and repetitive..

[squarevince]

This A-minor is not boring at all (some of his sonatas are pretty ho hum but all of his A minor ones are pretty neat).  Overall, the sonata is a curious mish-mash of alienated child, savage beast and a warm hearth.  The first movt passage where he transitions to E and A major is just utterly beautiful, and maybe the saddest major chords ever written. 

I also find it very difficult, musically.  I spent a good bit of time on it recently to the point of memorizing most of it, but gave it up because I got frustrated with my lack of ability to make it sound how it's "supposed" to sound.  The D845 A-minor sonata was much easier to learn.

[argerichfan]

I have to agree with the Tchaikovsky.  Even to this day I can't help but feel there must be something everyone's missing (including me) - it couldn't possibly be that awful.

Maybe it isn't all that awful. Richter seems to make the best case for this ship-wreck of a piece, but I do wonder if even he liked it that much.

[richterfan1]

Why are all mentioning Tchaikovsky? i dont get it ;/???

[symphonicdance]

Schubert's sonatas are great, though I didn't like most of them when I was much younger, perhaps I wasn't musically mature enough at that time.  I feel myself a bit pity as I haven't exposed to as many Russian sonatas (esp. Tchaikovsky's, Scriabin's and Medtner's) and contemp. ones as I'd love to, but I guess sometimes it takes a bit of time (and perhaps an event to trigger) to begin enjoying a "boring" work.

[sophie117]

I'm surprised people said to him "play schumann's sonatas". If anything Schumann's are even more tedious than Schubert's (though I don't find most of Schubert's sonatas boring). Schumann is just not a sonata composer.

[ahinton]

Why are all mentioning Tchaikovsky? i dont get it ;/???

"All" are not - only three have done so far - and now a fourth, I'm afraid. What makes it stand out as the let-down that I've always found it to be is that it falls so far short of the expectations that Tchaikovsky has set up for us in much of the remainder of his output (parts of the first three symphonies perhaps excepted); his achievement in a life of just half a century is astonishing, excelling as he did in chamber music, piano music (the sonata excepted), songs, opera, ballet and orchestral music to such an extent that he rarely wrote below his very remarkable best. His inexhaustible melodic invention alone must have been the envy of many of his contemporaries.

You don't get it? Well, I don't get that sonata either(!); it seems as though the composer was just going through the motions of writing a piano sonata as though out of some sense of duty or obligation and I find it disappointingly flaccid, lifeless and unengaging compared to most of the rest of what he wrote - and it's certainly not as though he couldn't handle the piano, as his concertos, miniature solo pieces, songs and piano trio demonstrate. The trio especially is a piece that I'd warmly recommend to anyone getting to know the composer's work, since it embraces so much of what he was about; it contains symphonic thinking, nods towards his work for the operatic and ballet stage and a persistent sense of vocal line and is perhaps one of his most ambitious works of all, its two movements running to almost 50 minutes if played without any cuts.

I have quite abit of trouble with Schubert and much of the music in his piano sonatas - even the late ones - leaves me cold and sounds all too effortful, despite my having heard a number of performances of them that are considered to be benchmarks in this repertoire. I believe that Schubert and his work suffered rather too often from his habit of simply writing too much and it is curious to me that he really seemed to be getting going in his final couple of years or so when he made a more detailed study of counterpoint and cut back on the sheer quantity of music that he was writing; even had he only lived as long as Chopin, I think that our view of him today would be quite different as a consequence of a further decade of composition.

The Berg Sonata "boring"? I surely didn't read that?!...

Lest anyone think that I'm allying myself with those who find Tchaikovsky's piano sonata and some of Schubert's piano sonatas "boring", here's another candidate - the first piano sonata of Szymanowski. OK, it's an early piece, but try comparing it to his other two piano sonatas and the sheer threadbareness and effortfulness will soon make its uncomfortable presence felt; all three of his piano sonatas end with fugues - the latter two quirkily brilliant and exciting and the first one utterly tiresome and uninspired. In that first sonata there's barely a shred of evidence of the splendid composer that Szymanowski was to become.

Best,

Alistair

[p2u_]

"Boring" Sonata by a Great Composer?

There is no such thing in the universe. Whenever you meet such a "teacher", please tell them  in a polite way: If something sounds boring when you try it yourself, then there is always someone who has made a case for it. Richter - Schubert, Prokofieff and others; Rubinstein - mainly Chopin, the "Spanish" composers and the Grieg piano concerto (which was mauvais ton to play at his time, but one of Sergey Rachmaninov's favorite concertos); Glen Gould - Bach. Need I go on?

Paul

[krajcher]

I don't like romantic music, but definitely your ex teacher should have kept his point of view to himself.

Melody is simple and original, very beautiful.

[49410enrique]

is anyone crazy about the grieg sonata? i don't think it particular bad or anything, there are actally some nice momnets, here and there, but that's just it, i find i like parts, sometimes,  but most of the time is rather forgettable.

like the tchaikovsky (though arguably not as high an expectation), i was left thinking, 'really that was it?"

i wonder if he had trimmed it and plyed a bit more with it on a smaller scale, like a sonatina, if that might have been a better way to go..

[p2u_]

is anyone crazy about the grieg sonata?

I haven't played it myself, but Glen Gould, for example, did a good job of recording it:
I. Allegro moderato
II. Andante molto
III. Alla menuetto, ma poco pił lento
IV. Finale: Molto allegro
Of course, it's not "music for the millions", but I wouldn't call it boring.

Paul

[49410enrique]

I haven't played it myself, but Glen Gould, for example, did a good job of recording it:
I. Allegro moderato
II. Andante molto
III. Alla menuetto, ma poco pił lento
IV. Finale: Molto allegro
Of course, it's not "music for the millions", but I wouldn't call it boring.

Paul

meh even when played exceptionally well, like perhaps when you have very strong actors in a movie that should end 30-45 minutes sooner than it actually does, it feels strained like its trying so hard to be more than it is, you can only make so so script even beutifully executed is just that. so so at best i suppose.  but his playing is superb, more a relfection on being limited by the score than guy or the sound he produces.

oh well tthey can't all be homeruns i suppose

it doe smake me think about an alternative what if, as in what if a relatively forgettable composer had sat down to write a sonata, might have given us a spectacular worK?

my thoughts turn to josef suk, oh how i wish he'd done a large scale work  for us....

[philb]

The Schubert sonatas are maybe some of the greatest in the repertoire, maybe chuck the first two. Aside from those the rest of them are sublime, especially the final 3. Though I must admit that I enjoy the D845 A minor sonata much more than this A minor.

If you are looking for a boring sonata from a great composer, I would direct you to Chopin's 1st and 2nd.

[fftransform]

Brahms 1, Tchaikovsky, Schumann 1/2, Chopin 1, many by Beethoven/Mozart/Haydn, many early ones by Schubert, Grieg, Dukas, Wagner . . .


Lots, basically.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

Strauss wrote a piano sonata that is rather sub-par compared to a lot of his other works. He wrote it when he was fairly young; not everything can be perfect.

While I understand most of the criticism on Schubert's sonatas are opinions, there is no doubt in my mind that the final sonata is one of the best written works in piano repertoire.

Schubert is far too much of a genius to have any work be labeled as "boring." In my experience, these opinions are based by people that sit in a chair and listen to a recording, or sit on a bench and thumb through a piece of music. Schubert cannot be approached that way. Perhaps early Liszt or most of Alkan can be because much of it is bravado; it is superficial. Schubert is not.

[stoudemirestat]

I'm surprised people said to him "play schumann's sonatas". If anything Schumann's are even more tedious than Schubert's (though I don't find most of Schubert's sonatas boring). Schumann is just not a sonata composer.

I disagree. I think Schumann's G Minor Sonata is brilliant.

[tchaikovsky_lover]

The song itself is boring, but if you make a few changes in dynamics, tempo and how you press on the keys it can make the song come alive again.  Never underestimate any song.  I find MANY, MANY, songs boring but if I speed it up or make a certain part louder then the song comes to life again.

[zezhyrule]

The song itself is boring, but if you make a few changes in dynamics, tempo and how you press on the keys it can make the song come alive again.  Never underestimate any song.  I find MANY, MANY, songs boring but if I speed it up or make a certain part louder then the song comes to life again.

I was going to say something but then... I didn't wanna sound like a troll so.  

_{no I don't mean you calling solo piano stuff 'songs', though that annoys me too}  

[werq34ac]

The song itself is boring, but if you make a few changes in dynamics, tempo and how you press on the keys it can make the song come alive again.  Never underestimate any song.  I find MANY, MANY, songs boring but if I speed it up or make a certain part louder then the song comes to life again.

What the hell? Are you a troll? The song itself is boring? I mean, I think it's been well established in this debate that if you are one of many who find Schubert's sonatas boring, then you are simply ignorant and haven't really listened to Schubert (I'm guilty of this as well). Sure it's not as exciting as Beethoven, but it's just as beautiful.

A few changes in dynamics and it comes alive? The dynamics are 90% of the time written IN THE SCORE. The song itself HAS THOSE DYNAMICS. The other 10% is up for interpretation on what you want to do it. If you speed it up or make a certain part louder then it comes to life? If you really think it's that simple then you need Introduction to Musicianship and the Basics of Interpretation classes.

[bjh_]

Personally I believe Schubert to be the greatest of all the composers. For me his genius surpasses that of any of the other 'greats'. Unfortunately many find his works long, tedious or 'boring' and indeed the piano sonatas are all quite long, but that just means I can get wonderfully lost in them.
It's interesting you posted the A minor no. 14 as an example, it's actually not only my favourite Schubert sonata, but my favourite piano sonata full stop (Unfortunately I've yet to find a recording i really like). It's certainly Schubert's darkest sonata and it is hauntingly wild; personally I don't understand how anyone could call it boring. Though looking objectively it's probably as a result of the particularly 'unpianistic' nature of the piece (for the time of its writing that is) and therefore it perhaps doesn't sit well with everybody...

[bjh_]

Strauss wrote a piano sonata that is rather sub-par compared to a lot of his other works. He wrote it when he was fairly young; not everything can be perfect.

A little known sonata is the B minor. I agree with you that it's not a patch on his other works (he's not really a piano composer anyway), but I actually started to quite like this after I heard a recording of Glenn Gould playing it.

[pytheamateur]

Why are all mentioning Tchaikovsky? i dont get it ;/???

Then he was not famous for his piano solo music.  The only pieces people play now are The Seasons, and for advanced pianists, probably Dumka as well.