Rubinstein Drops and Flops

[keyboardclass]

Short and sweet:

[nyiregyhazi]

Short and sweet:

Is taking a single unrepresentative clip of Rubinstein really supposed to prove something? I wouldn't even call it a drop and flop. He looks uncharacteristically stiff there. There's quite a jarring impact. This rather forceful blow is not typical of his general approach to movement and is about the last aspect I'd single out as a good example. He usually absorbs impact a good deal more smoothly.

[keyboardclass]

He looks uncharacteristically stiff there..

Rubenstein?  Stiff?  How sad you dare judge a true genius.

[nyiregyhazi]

Rubenstein?  Stiff?  How sad you dare judge a true genius.

I didn't judge Rubinstein. I judged the fact that you took a clip featuring an unusually jarring impact and presented it outside of the context of how smoothly he absorbs most landings (which typically neither involves any trace of your drop and flop nor the jarring rebound seen in that clip). Rubinstein is typically a very good example of using the fingers to smoothly redirect energy away from hard landings. However, this is a rare example if him banging down hard against the keybed- evidenced by the ungainly jolt that is so rarely seen from him.

This is a fine pianist making an emergency recovery- not something that you can hope to use as propaganda for your ends. Look at other films of Rubinstein, to see how atypical this is.

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His default action is literally the opposite of collapsing the wrist down. His normal manner has zero to do with Grindea's flop.

[keyboardclass]

this is a rare example if him banging down hard against the keybed- evidenced by the ungainly jolt that is so rarely seen from him.

Ungainly!?  Rubinstein?  You're sad mate.

[nyiregyhazi]

Ungainly!?  Rubinstein?  You're sad mate.

In this rare instance, yes. There's an extremely visible impact that is most uncharacteristic of Rubinstein regular poise. I'm not interested in a cheap slanging match, sorry, so please either stick to the topic or address any personal insults to my private mail.

[thalbergmad]

Analysis of a 6 second clip.

Lets see if we can get 4 pages out of this

Thal

[keyboardclass]

, sorry, so please either stick to the topic 

...which is Rubinstein Drops and Flops!

[ajspiano]

No pianist or composer is genius enough to be considered worthy of a blind faith in their actions.

What is the reason for doing this? How does it make your playing better?

[keyboardclass]

No pianist or composer is genius enough to be considered worthy of a blind faith in their actions.

What is the reason for doing this? How does it make your playing better?

The point is to learn to apply your weight/strength then immediately relax.  You see Rubinstein do it so clearly in this clip.

[ajspiano]

I'd be inclined to say that I clearly see him playing with a pulling motion from the shoulder which is what is resulting in the motion that may be interpreted as a sudden relaxation of the wrist.

I dont think he is jarred or doing the drop/flop thing. I use this pull motion myself in certain situations and can say it's neither jarring nor has anything to do with a flop in the wrist. The pull action is what causesthe wrist 'flop' because it is under the pressure applied by the forearm moving down and the shoulder girdle pullin the forearm backward. It places the weight more in the wrist so it dips a little in response to increased pressure. Works well for mezzo staccato chords.

...As demonstrated by this talented young man (forum member) around the 1min mark. Its bigger here because its mezzo stacc, rubinsteins is obviously held longer so we don't see the lift back up and move in for the next chord.

Still.. You never can really tell what someone is doing from a video with out talking to them also. Atleast I can't.

[nyiregyhazi]

I'd be inclined to say that I clearly see him playing with a pulling motion from the shoulder which is what is resulting in the motion that may be interpreted as a sudden relaxation of the wrist.

I dont think he is jarred or doing the drop/flop thing. I use this pull motion myself in certain situations and can say it's neither jarring nor has anything to do with a flop in the wrist. The pull action is what causesthe wrist 'flop' because it is under the pressure applied by the forearm moving down and the shoulder girdle pullin the forearm backward. It places the weight more in the wrist so it dips a little in response to increased pressure. Works well for mezzo staccato chords.

Although this is possible, something about the way his wrist rebounds suggest a pretty notable impact compared to the way he usually absorbs even the largest of drops. It's not smooth, but more of a violent recoil. You can see the hand juddering after the landing. Rubinstein was a good enough pianist, all in all, that I'm sure he could get away with this on occasion (although I really don't recall seeing this style of movement with any notable frequency in his filmed performances). However, when less experienced players try to get sound by forcing the wrist down, they get into all kinds of problems. It leaves way too much arm momentum travelling into the moment of impact. It takes a very large movement to produce even a minor level of acceleration at the finger end- and that energy does not stop itself when the key sounds. The only way to prevent that is an extremely active hand movement to absorb and redirect it. In this situation, a relaxed and inert hand makes for as much impact as a stiff one. Rubinstein lets his knuckles collapse slightly there (rather than use the fingers to move them up and away), which sends a lot of momentum into landing at the keybed.

A pianist who used that style of movement for every loud chord would soon get into problems- due to the abrupt deceleration of the wrist. There's no worse kind of crash landing than that comes from pulling the wrist down. A smooth deceleration just isn't possible.

[pianoplayjl]

Analysis of a 6 second clip.

Lets see if we can get 4 pages out of this

Thal

You are the funniest guy ever on Pianostreet! I want 6 just like the theory of tech is dead thread.

Does anyone know what piece he is playing?

JL

[ajspiano]

technically its 2 seconds worth repeated 3 times..  we are already doing exceedingly well on the over analysis.

[flyinfingers]

This is exactly what my teacher is telling me at the present time:  Play the chord, then relax.  The more she says it the stiffer I get!  Can only do it at home relaxed.  They say, don't try this at home, but in this case it works! 
You're funny Thal!

[keyboardclass]

The pull action is what causesthe wrist 'flop' because it is under the pressure applied by the forearm moving down and the shoulder girdle pullin the forearm backward. It places the weight more in the wrist so it dips a little in response to increased pressure.

I'd agree except the wrist dip (flop) happens after any applied pressure i.e. when all muscles have relaxed (as flyin states).  The wrist is high when the power (drop) is applied.

[keyboardclass]

Rubinstein was a good enough pianist, all in all,

The barefaced hubris!  The megalomania astonishes.

[nyiregyhazi]

The barefaced hubris!  The megalomania astonishes.

Straight out if the the trolling handbook, eh? Is quoting half of a sentence (that is entirely conditional upon the erased completion) really the best you can do? At least troll with some imagination, please. Have you enquired about careers in tabloid journalism?