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Topic: Here is Chopin Etude Op10-10 recoding trials  (Read 2626 times)

Offline johnmar78

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Here is Chopin Etude Op10-10 recoding trials
on: February 17, 2012, 03:49:10 PM
Hey folks, remember in late december last year I had one op10-10 done after 4 months.  And  yeterday at 1 am, I did another take with all new recording gears, and this is after 6 months.

Please have a listen and as this is an inprocess recording. STill polishing....Welcome all feedbacks..

PS.  you can hear my RH nail ticking the keyboard while playing leaps. :D
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Offline rachfan

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Re: Here is Chopin Etude Op10-10 recoding trials
Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 04:27:26 AM
Hi johnmar,

At the outset I'll tell you that I've not played this etude, although I'm familiar with it.  

This etude is largely a study for double-note chords at an interval of a 6th in the right hand.  At the moment your tempo is quite slow, as to be expected, as this is obviously a work in progress.  The objective is to eventually get the speed up to MM = dotted quarter note at 152 or as close to that as you can manage without your playing becoming ragged.  Of paramount importance is playing this piece with a sublime evenness at all times.  You have some moments here and there where the evenness becomes raggedness, but it's because you're still trying to get the correct notes and to get the figuration under complete control.  That should come in time.

Notice that the RH is comprised of two-note slurs.  These slurs are played down-up down-up with the wrist and hand; however, because of the velocity of the piece, they cannot be played too far off the keys by striking from above.  Rather, the hands in this etude need to remain closer to the keys.  The second beat of the slur (the lighter lift-off note) at the end of a measure falls on the downbeat (strongest beat) of the following measure.  And then the stronger down-motion of the next two-note slur then falls on the second beat which is a weak beat.  What a paradox! What Chopin is essentially doing is erasing the bar lines and smoothing out the musical line.  The pianist is expected to play at tempo and in rhythm, but he doesn't want the meter to call attention to itself, as it would in a march, for example.  Instead he wants long, lyrical lines.  To emphasize this even more, he puts a long legato marks over an entire lines of music.  And to make more sure that we get the point, he places rinforzando accents over the melodic notes which are the first note of each slur.  So the phrases here have to sound really smooth and seamless.

Because this is an etude for right hand, Chopin wants the accompaniment in the LH to be as legato and unobtrusive as possible.  In balancing the hands, you'll want the LH at about mf so as not to distract from the RH playing in the foreground at f.  The dotted half notes in the LH have to be held by with the 4th finger--theoretically for five beats.  From a practical standpoint, simply hold onto them as long as you reasonably can.  Everyone's hand is a bit different, so degree of stretch and comfort have to be factors there.

After page 1 Chopin stops most of the phrasing and slur markings, but has sufficiently demonstrated them, so they are to continue similarly throughout the piece.  As for pedaling, from looking at the score (I'm not at the piano) the markings appear workable.  If, however, you find that you are getting any blurs, feel free to use half-pedals where necessary.  Modern day pianos are more resonant than those of Chopin's time, so some adjustment may be needed.  Listen to yourself, let your ears be the judge.

In addition to playing double-note figuration, Chopin complicates it with changes of touch.  You play the staccatos at the end of page 1 well, for example.  Incidentally, the dots are on top of the notes where they belong, so why did he take the pains to write "staccato" between the staffs as well?  Because he had discontinued the legato markings two lines above.  Thus if one mistakenly took that literally (instead of realizing that phrasing would continue "simile" , then they would likely incorrectly play portato touch there instead.  Chopin always had a method to his madness.  

So far, understandably you haven't done much with dynamics.  Notice all the cresc. < > decresc. indicators in the score.  You'll need to bring those out along with the dynamic level markings.  Right now there is very little contrast, as you're mostly watching over the notes at this stage of practicing.  On page two twice he notates sotto voce--very quiet voice or undertones.

Over on page 4 there is the delicatissimo over the RH.  Try leaning backward on the bench until you get the feeling that your forearms are floating in air, hands over the keyboard.  That will help you to execute that spot quietly and delicately.

You've got the melodic lines with accents in place and you've been observant with the changes in touch.  

I think you should continue to work on the articulation aspects for the time being striving for accuracy and evenness.  Slow, deliberate practice at forte--which can be mechanical where needed.  If you find that with repeated playings you hit stumbling blocks in certain places, stop and closely examine the fingering you are using in conjunction with the choreography of the hands.  Is there a better one?  I don't know which edition you are using.  Fingering given in the score might come from the composer in some instances; in an urtext edition it will come from the composer and/or the editorial board; and in an edited edition, usually the editor.  As to the latter, some editors were incompetents, but a few were geniuses like Raphael Jossefy or the artist Emil von Sauer.  In any case, because everyone's hand is different, you cannot rely on any given fingering until you try it and decide whether it will be satisfactory or not.  When learning a piece, if there is little fingering indicated, use your best judgement in those places that will require fingerings, but for the first couple of weeks consider those judgments tentative, as you might need to make a few adjustments.  Caveat: A great fingering in slow practice might not work well up to speed, so you have to test that too.

Once you are more comfortable with the piece (if you attain that comfort), shift the focus of study to musicality--attention to lyricism, dynamics, shadings, nuances, etc.  Once you've gotten that far, then think of the piece more holistically--the long line and sweep of the piece and how best to put the music across to the listener.

When everything is pretty much in hand, you can work up to a suitable tempo with metronome drills.  

I hope some of this is helpful.

David  
    
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline johnmar78

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Re: Here is Chopin Etude Op10-10 recoding trials
Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 10:15:42 AM
Many thanks David. As I expected. Harder the better. Yes, I deleberate to play 20% slower than my max tempo. The aim at this stage is articulation, accuracy, and eveness. To be honest its also to do with mental relaxzation if you know what I am talking about. Thank God I am the slowest one palyed this etude, I ahve heard slower.. ;D.
I also want to get my hearing used to what I heard and will speed up eventually.

So thanks again, I will put mor ecolouring in next recording -2 months time.

John

Offline starstruck5

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Re: Here is Chopin Etude Op10-10 recoding trials
Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 07:28:46 PM
The recording is much clearer than your first attempt -the piano sounds lovely.
 I also think your efforts so far deserved the in depth comments from Rachfan( David)
 -I look forward to hearning your next installment!
When a search is in progress, something will be found.

Offline johnmar78

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Re: Here is Chopin Etude Op10-10 recoding trials
Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 08:00:49 AM
thanks Starstruck, I am working hard for the next 2 months inconjuction with otehr studies(etude/nocturne). I will do my best while I am still alive on this planet. ;D
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