Sight-reading problems

[outin]

I have gradually made a discovery about my inability to sight-read anything (no matter how easy the piece is). I had the same problem when I was a child but now that I am older (and hopefully wiser) I can analyze my problems much better.

I seem to be visually handicapped in a way that I am not able to SEE the differences/similarities in pitch on the staff. I have always had some problems with activities that require spatial cognition skills (drawing, geometry) while my verbal skills have been way over average. So the notation system that is based on how the notes are placed on the staff is simply very difficult for me to read. Note values and accidents are not the problem, just the placement of the notes on the staff.

A good example was when I was learning a simple piece yesterday. There’s a measure that has 3 similar intervals at the same pitch (3rds) and I actually did not realize that they were the same until I had played them all separately first. Also when looking at two consecutive intervals that are only one pitch lower/higher I tend not to see the difference at all. With single notes this is not so bad because I usually can spot a pattern, but measures with chords and intervals are difficult. So when I am trying to sight-read a piece I just play whatever I THINK (practically I am guessing) is written and then I immediately hear whether it is right or wrong and try again until I have it right. After I have learned the notes on the piece I can use the sheet as reference to help me remember what comes next, so I kind of “read” it but not the individual notes/chords/intervals.

Has anyone experienced similar problems themselves or with their students? Considering the amount of time I have spent on musical activities (playing the piano as a child for at least 5 years, the flute about 2 years, singing and some electric quitar playing too and now as an adult about 8 months playing the piano daily) I wonder if practice will ever make better in this case?

Maybe I should just stop banging my head to a wall and accept the fact that I will never be able to sight-read. Learning pieces will be slower, but if I don’t get frustrated about the sight-reading issues I find it quite enjoyable.

[dazzzer]

I have this problem but I am making some progress on intervals and so can you,  I get 2nds and 3rds good but on 4ths and 5ths I sometimes get mixed up on, I nearly always read the first note of the interval then try to get the interval.   I find it better when the notes are in the five lines when they go above them or below I get really confused. ~ I am still quite new but start with 2nds line and space , or space and line , and 3rds are line line or space –space, I am in the middle of writing some 2nds and 3rds down on paper just all random in sheet forum so I can get some practice sight reading and its all cheap as i am wiriting it out myself , try not to add 4ths or 5ths until you have 2nds and 3rds nailed down . good luck.

[outin]

Thanks! I actually did practice reading the intervals and it helped a little bit, but it does not help with my problem to correctly assess the differences on the placement of the notes on the staff. To make it clearer, I can look at two consecutive individual notes and not actually see whether they are at the same pitch or not.

[outin]

Well, I was talking with one of the psychologists at work and she pointed out that I clearly have some type of NLD (non-verbal learning disorder). Never learned left-right, have trouble with number recognition and simple calculations even though I studied physics and math at the university level, did not learn simple tasks like tying my shoe-laces as a child and have difficulty with spatial recognition and kinesthetic processing. So not learning sight-reading in a normal way is just logical. I'll just let it be and hope things will gradually stick into my head or I find new ways of learning, I'm usually pretty good in solving problems my own way

[ajspiano]

What if it looked like this..  see attached


you know, as a starting point - maybe that would help you learn quicker?

[outin]

That was interesting. My first reaction was that it was a total mess...I don't think so many colours necessary make things clearer for me, too much information. But it made me think maybe if only two colours were used? To have the next note in different colour when the notes change pitch and then back to black for the next one. That might actually help. I would need to get a notation software to experiment...

When I am not trying to sight-read, but learn a piece I have found it very helpful to mark the "difficult" notes with a colour pen.

[ajspiano]

That was interesting. My first reaction was that it was a total mess...I don't think so many colours necessary make things clearer for me, too much information. But it made me think maybe if only two colours were used? To have the next note in different colour when the notes change pitch and then back to black for the next one. That might actually help. I would need to get a notation software to experiment...

When I am not trying to sight-read, but learn a piece I have found it very helpful to mark the "difficult" notes with a colour pen.

Perhaps lines one colour spaces another?


I made that with musescore which is a free notation program. The note colours were automatic, not individually set so I don't know if you could set them differently.

[nickadams]

Well, I was talking with one of the psychologists at work and she pointed out that I clearly have some type of NLD (non-verbal learning disorder). Never learned left-right, have trouble with number recognition and simple calculations even though I studied physics and math at the university level, did not learn simple tasks like tying my shoe-laces as a child and have difficulty with spatial recognition and kinesthetic processing. So not learning sight-reading in a normal way is just logical. I'll just let it be and hope things will gradually stick into my head or I find new ways of learning, I'm usually pretty good in solving problems my own way

perhaps you have the learning disorder called dyscalculia. Here are some symptoms you may have shown as a child...

Frequent difficulties with arithmetic

Difficulty with everyday tasks like reading analog clocks

Inability to comprehend financial planning or budgeting, sometimes even at a basic level; for example, estimating the cost of the items in a shopping basket or balancing a checkbook

Difficulty with multiplication-tables, and subtraction-tables, addition tables, division tables, mental arithmetic, etc.

Difficulty with conceptualizing time and judging the passing of time. May be chronically late or early

Particularly problems with differentiating between left and right

Inability to visualize mentally

Difficulty reading musical notation

Might do exceptionally well in a writing-related field — authors and journalists are more likely than average to have the disorder

Difficulty navigating or mentally "turning" the map to face the current direction rather than the common North=Top usage

Having particular difficulty mentally estimating the measurement of an object or distance (e.g., whether something is 10 or 20 feet (3 or 6 metres) away).

Often unable to grasp and remember mathematical concepts, rules, formulae, and sequences
Inability to concentrate on mentally intensive tasks

Low latent inhibition, i.e., over-sensitivity to noise, smell, light and the inability to tune out, filtering unwanted information or impressions. Might have a well-developed sense of imagination due to this (possibly as cognitive compensation to mathematical-numeric deficits)

Mistaken recollection of names. Poor name/face retrieval. May substitute names beginning with same letter

https://dyscalculiaforum.com/viewpage.php?page_id=1

[outin]

I have read about dyscalculia and some of those symptoms would apply to me while others don't. I believe this disorder is caused by several cognitive issues and I seem to have some of them but not all.

It has not really bothered me before, because I have managed to do well in things that interest me without little effort or by compensating by other skills. I think playing the piano is the first thing for me that I actually want to learn well but find difficult. Being bad in sports or not being able to draw or count in my head has never been important to me. As a child I did not really care about the piano either, because I had not been exposed to really good piano music.

I will take this as a challenge, sometimes I have good days and things come quite easily. The more difficult the piece is technically, the easier it is for me to memorize after I just manage to find out what notes to play.

I do have a very good ability to keep steady rhythm, I have a good ear for pitch and I can remember and hear the music in my head easily, so I guess it could be worse...

Of course I could just stick to singing or playing something that doesn't require handling several voices at once, but I enjoy the piano (both the sound and the feel of playing) too much to give it up again.