Do you ever get frustatrated with students?

[cysoto]

Let me begin by saying that I a returning student.  I started taking classical piano education when I was about eight years old and I lost interest very quickly.  This was mainly because my attention span was (and I think that it’s still) very short.  Shortly after, I started taking Suzuki method with which I stuck with until I was in High School (about six or seven years in total).  I mainly studied Jazz and contemporary music.  Now at my 32 years of age I have recently begun taking classes again.  I have decided to go back to the beginning and start with Baroque and Classical music.  The problem is that this requires that I read music (which is something that I am learning at a very slow pace) and also, I can’t use improvisation (which is what a lot of Jazz is based on).

It is frustrating for me to not be able to read music.  Even worse, I wish I know how long should it take me to learn to recognize notes and intervals without having to constantly think about the: “Every Good Boy Does Fine” phrase all the time.

This frustration on my part prompted a conversation with my piano teacher.  I asked her if she ever got frustrated with her students because they were not learning something as simple as this.  She told me she understood my frustration and that I was being to hard on myself - after all we’ve only been working for a month.  She did recommend some books and some techniques that I could try; and of course, practice, practice, and practice!

This got me thinking…  Do you ever get frustrated with your students (old and young alike)?  Are there any issues that come up with them that make you want to transfer them to another teacher?  Do you ever loose hope or do you keep trying regardless of their inability to learn?

[m1469]

I don't get frustrated with the students themselves for the reasons you are talking about.  When it is a matter of students trying hard, but not understanding, I really start going over again how I can better explain it.  So, yes sometimes I do get a little frustrated, but, only because there is something about what I am doing that needs to be done better.  And, I don't always have the answer.

I have found that with one of my students in particular, a more mature one, who is quite challenged by what we have taken up together,  (it is challenging for both of us), we have more opportunities than normal to explore some of the deeper issues.  What a joy it is to see this person overcome challenges!

This person has overcome and is overcoming limits that he has believed about himself for most of his life.  That's not necessarily quick work if you know what I mean!  But, it is very rewarding, for both of us, I think.

As a side note, I would say that there are "better" ways to learn how to read music than using the classic Every Good Boy...  I am sure there is a thread about learning to note-read within the forum.  I mention this because I purposely do not teach note-reading by way of acronyms and such, simply because a person starts having too many things to try to remember (some of which have absolutely nothing to do with music whatever)!  But, maybe it is working for you, and that's what ultimately matters.  If it is not, however, perhaps you would explore other options?  Just a thought.

Hope it helps,

m1469

[ChristmasCarol]

This got me thinking…  Do you ever get frustrated with your students (old and young alike)?  Are there any issues that come up with them that make you want to transfer them to another teacher?  Do you ever loose hope or do you keep trying regardless of their inability to learn?
[/quote]

I agree with m1469... I tell my students not to worry if something isn't clear... yet... it's my job to make it so.  So, no,  I don't get frustrated with my students.  The teacher is not just listening to the notes really, but rather, following the mind's track to see how it can be re-inforced, developed, brought forward, etc.  Ask me if I get frustrated with parents of students.  

[bernhard]

Acceptance is an important ingredient in whatever one does in life. This means that you always start from wherever you are. The frustration you talk about is always the result of the lack of acceptance of the situation as it actually is.

So do I ever get frustrated with students?

Yes. When:

1.      They don’t learn as fast as I wish they would.
2.      They don’t practise as much as I wish they would.
3.      They don’t practise in the way I think best, even when I went to gret pains to explain what is required.
4.      They show no interest in music.
5.      They show no signs of appreciation for my efforts.
6.      They want to go on holidays every four weeks.
7.      They refuse to use all the facilities I put at their disposal.
8.      They come to the next lesson without any material (sheet music, piano books, homework).
9.      They stubbornly keep playing their own (wrong) way.
10.      They pay no attention whatsoever look at me and say: “What did you say?”

The list is actually endless. But you get the idea.

However whenever I see any signs of frustration, I remind myself that this is the situation as it is. I remind myself that if none of the above (and much more besides) was not the situation, there would be no need for teachers and I would be out of a job.

So in fact, I do not get frustrated. I thrive on these situations.

As for your reading problems. "Every boy deserves fun" is not a good strategy (As m1469 pointed out). I strongly recommend that you get yourself a copy of Howard Richmann’s “Super sight reading secrets” and go through the whole book (it is only 50 pages – however it may take you anything between 3 months and 2 years to complete the exercises). You can read more about it and about sight reading on the following threads:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1048235978
(teaching very small children – pros and cons of sight reading – good thread)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1061861871
(An interesting French book)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1069725044
(Good thread, mentions the sideways staff)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1081187434
(How to teach bass clef)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1081624578
(detailed explanation of the sight-reading process)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1073131731
(discussion of Richman’s book)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1087022500
(more discussion on Richmann’s book)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1071914342
(Cambridge word scramble example)

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1085793013
(tips for not looking at the keyboard, answers to critical reviews of Richman)

Finally, you can improvise on classical and baroque music, and if you can do it, I strongly recommend you do it. Of course the idiom is different from jazz, but I cannot think of any better way to get yourself familiarised with the style and the “rules”. Especially in Baroque music, the performer was expected to improvise extensively, and the scores that have come down to us are just the bare skeleton. Improvisation went out of Classical music only in the end of the 19th beginning of the 20th century, but up to then was very much part of the performance.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[teresa_b]

Acceptance is an important ingredient in whatever one does in life. This means that you always start from wherever you are. The frustration you talk about is always the result of the lack of acceptance of the situation as it actually is.

Bernhard,

You must have some knowledge of Buddhism!  This insight is one of the most valuable for ANY of life's endeavors, not the least of which is teaching and learning music!  

As a musician by nature, and medical doctor by necessity, I have recalled this "as it is" philosophy so many times, because I have often wished I could escape my office and just play the piano.  But when I am able to just "be with" my patients one by one, as they are, I am not frustrated at all.  It must be the same with your students, whether they be Horowitz or Horrors!  

I am a serious amateur pianist, and I have the wonderful good fortune to play with my local chamber orchestra--This spring we will do Mozart K449.  (I have fallen into a role as "Mozart player," and have done K453, 488, and 459 over the past few years.)  
At the risk of soliciting free advice, I will ask if you have any suggestions for a perennial student?

Sincerely,
Teresa Brandt

[bernhard]

Bernhard,

You must have some knowledge of Buddhism!  This insight is one of the most valuable for ANY of life's endeavors, not the least of which is teaching and learning music!  

As a musician by nature, and medical doctor by necessity, I have recalled this "as it is" philosophy so many times, because I have often wished I could escape my office and just play the piano.  But when I am able to just "be with" my patients one by one, as they are, I am not frustrated at all.  It must be the same with your students, whether they be Horowitz or Horrors!  

I am a serious amateur pianist, and I have the wonderful good fortune to play with my local chamber orchestra--This spring we will do Mozart K449.  (I have fallen into a role as "Mozart player," and have done K453, 488, and 459 over the past few years.)  
At the risk of soliciting free advice, I will ask if you have any suggestions for a perennial student?

Sincerely,
Teresa Brandt

Having read your other posts, I am probably the one who should be asking for your advice.

I do have a recommendation though, but not quite about Mozart (although he gets mentioned here and there). Here is a wonderful book written by a pianist (excellent) who specialises in the Chamber repertory:

Susan Tomes – “Beyond the notes” (Boydell)

It is a beautifully written book mostly about the experience of playing in a group (she was the pianist of the Domus quartet and is now the pianist with the award-winning Florestan Trio).

The first half of the book is the diary she kept while on tour first with Domus and then with Florestan. The second half of the book is a collection of her essays that have been published in magazines (mostly on the arts section of “The Guardian”). These essays are superbly articulated (In have not yet read anything better than her essays on the differences between live and recorded music).

I found this book very moving, and I think you may enjoy it too.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[teresa_b]

Thanks, Bernhard!

--for your compliment, and your recommendation on Susan Tomes' book.  I'll get it for sure!  I've read some of your other posts, too, and you are obviously an excellent and conscientious teacher.  

Keep up the great work!  

Many thanks again,
Teresa

[bernhard]

Thanks, Bernhard!

--for your compliment, and your recommendation on Susan Tomes' book.  I'll get it for sure!  I've read some of your other posts, too, and you are obviously an excellent and conscientious teacher.  

Keep up the great work!  


Many thanks again,
Teresa

You are welcome.

[BoliverAllmon]

read tobias matthay's book on piano technique. He talks about how to teach properly. He says that students usually don't understand what we are talking about and therefore we need to relate to them differently to accomplish the desired results we are looking for.