What kind of headphones to buy??

[missdoc77]

Our DP is being delivered today!!  I'm so excited!  I need to buy some headphones and would like some input on which ones to consider.  At 1st glance, you can spend anywhere from $50-$350!!!  So... suggestions anyone???

Around the ear?
Over the ear?
Closed over the ear?
On ear?
Noise isolating?

There are way too many choices and I'm lost...

[ionian_tinnear]

You get what you pay for..  Lower costing 'phones will not be so good, but really expensive ones aren't necessary either, and you often are just paying for the brand name.  I use Behringer unless I'm in a noisy environment, then I grab my Bose noise cancelling.

I prefer over the ear, cupped headphones as they reduce outside noise better than on the ear types.

Mid Priced good ones (IMO):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MDR7502/
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MDR7506/
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HD280Pro/
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ATHD40/ These are really nice and not too pricey!

[gvfarns]

For someone with a digital piano, high quality headphones are an excellent investment.

As a rule, over-the-ear is best.  For a given price you get the best detail and soundstage from open-style headphones like Sennheiser HD595/HD598's, though they allow room noise in.  If your room is quiet, I'd suggest going this direction. Sennheiser products seem to fluctuate a lot in price.  I bought my HD595's just a bit ago for $120, new (same as the 598's, just a different color).  Now they are like twice that.  They were  a great purchase at $120--not sure if they are a good buy at current prices.  A very popular set of headphones that can be had at a great price and are used a lot for this type of application are the AKG K240's.  I hear a lot of people liking Denon headphones as well, but I do not have a lot of experience with them.

For closed-style headphones (i.e., if your room is noisy) refer to the other posters, as I do not have much experience with them.

If possible avoid headphones that try to boost the bass and/or treble.  Lots of headphones intended for rock and pop listeners have this feature and it's not generally desirable in instrument work.  For example, Grados are truly outstanding headphones at a great price, but I understand that they tend to have this orientation (not my personal experience, it's just what owners have told me).  Many, possibly most, headphones you run into are this way.  What we want is headphones intended for studio work or classical music with a nice even response curve.

That's my take on the issue, anyway.

[outin]

Sound is important, but so is the fit! If they are too heavy or loose you might end up with stress in you neck. Also they migh be uncomfortable on your ears if the material is not good. So if you are buying expensive ones, make sure you can try them on first.

[lhorwinkle]

I'd recommend "open" headphones. They sound better than closed phones.
They let a bit of sound leak out, but not much. And they sound so much better.

Earlier, someone recommended four different closed phones. I'd stay away from them.
Of those four, I've tried the HD280. Not good at all. Horrible really.
For the same money there are dozens of better choices among open phones.

[jimbo320]

These are the one's I use. Great sound, inexpensive and you still can hear the sounds around you. Like someone talking to you...
https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-RP-HT21-Lightweight-Headphones-Port/dp/B00004T8R2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330192548&sr=8-2

[lhorwinkle]

Headphones for $5 ?
Junk. Who are you kidding?

[jas_sorian]

Philips headphones (over-the-ear)

[tekime]

If you're going for a really high-end set, you should also consider investing in a headphone amp. Not the same as a pre-amped headphone jack!

I've been shopping around for a while, and it's just crazy how much you can spend on headphones alone.  Every set has a slightly different "flavor" though so it might be worth hitting your local audio shop to listen to some sets and see what you like.

[john90]

Headphones for $5 ?
Junk. Who are you kidding?

Sorry, but I am with Jimbo on this. You only need them to work well for piano sounds, not a full orchestra. Also you can tweak the piano to make up for issues in the headphones. Some will be better for different styles of playing too.

Take your MP3 player and some (only) piano music to listen to. You can try loads without relying on the shop hifi. Perhaps even record the DP into your iphone or whatever. I tried a friends expensive headphones, and was disappointed in their piano performance.

[quantum]

For trying out headphones, I'd go with FLAC or WAV rather than a lossy format like mp3.  In order to achieve compression mp3's remove frequencies.  You want to be able to hear all frequencies when you audition your headphones. 

[will]

For most people basically any headphones will be good enough. If you are a discerning listener then demo them first.
Also, if you are going to be using them for long periods you should consider comfort. If that is the case I'd prefer a set of headphones that are 10/10 comfort and 5/10 sound than 5/10 comfort and 10/10 sound.

[lhorwinkle]

I agree ... comfort is important.
But you don't have to settle for 5/10 sound to get 10/10 comfort.
Most any $80+ circumaural headphone will be very comfortable and will sound very good.

Some of the $5 phones are comfortable, too.  But you'll never get good sound from them, not even "just the piano, not the whole orchestra".
The audio quality is thin, uneven, with no low-end and marginal high-end.
Equalization with only improve the "horrible" to merely "bad".
They are the 21st century's replacement for the Victrola. Stay away.

[gvfarns]

I have to agree with lhorwinkle.  While it is impressive what you can get for $20 or so, the weaknesses of cheap headphones are much more apparent when playing a piano than when listening to music from a CD, for example, even of an orchestra.  The latter typically has had its dynamic range shrunk and often has been EQ'ed to death.  Cheap headphones have no low end.  Moderate price headphones (like $20) are often boomy in the low end and lack clarity and proper timbre in all ranges.

I know it's extra money, but there's really something to be had in those $100+ open-style circumaural headphones.  When you play scales up and down on your piano, the response curve is noticeably superior and at all times the clarity and beauty are superior.

Of course, if you can't afford nice headphones, that's valid too.  Get whatever makes sense for you--even earbuds can work ok.  For several years I played on some walmart headphones and they were better than my speakers. 

But it was a whole different experience when I finally ponied up for good headphones...as I could afford to do so.

We always make do with what we can, but when making recommendations, we should shoot for something that will actually work well.

[keypeg]

I'm reviving this thread, because I'm not sure that my quest merits a new one.  My quite old Sony headphones, which came with the first used DP, are falling apart - the sound is now cutting in and out of one ear. I have done a bit of reading by now on the subject.  I have a question, and I don't know if I can verbalize it in a way that makes sense.

Ok, I'm using headphones as a student learning to play the piano, including starting to add some nuances under my teacher's supervision. My teacher is elsewhere, we work remotely, so part of what we do is that I send him files that I create, of my playing.  It is critical that I hear what I'm actually producing.  I'm not using headphones for self-gratification, to have an "awesome listening experience" while playing the piano.

I have a Kawai CA97 which I bought above all for its mechanical action and what goes with it, for playing-learning purposes.

Now when I'm reading about the "better" headsets (which I did in the other piano forum), the discussion seems to be about how wonderful the sound is.  I read about more or less bass or treble, maybe of certain things being boosted.  If a thing is being boosted to sound better, am I still hearing what I am actually producing?  If I use such a "wonderful" headset that makes things sound gorgeous, while recording my playing, will my teacher hear those gorgeous things, or will I end up having missed the mark somewhere?  For example, supposing something simple like you want to bring out a top line of music, or a voice, and that register has been boosted artificially into your ear so that it "sounds right" - then that artificial boost will make you hear what you didn't actually produce - and you can't monitor what you're actually producing?

I tried to ask this in the other forum, and everybody got confused.

What I have in my "cart" right now is:
- Sennheiser HD 598  Cs .... because everyone was talking about how good it is, though a 600-something was better (along criteria that matter for my purpose?) but way too costly

- Sennheiser HD 280 PRO - cheaper by CAD $80 - apparently doesn't boost anything.  So in Amazon reviews there are complaints (by non-musicians?) about the dull sound (because it doesn't boost anything)

- Audio-Technica ATH M50x - which I think was mentioned on PS

Just to make matters more confusing, the "better" headphones would do well to have some kind of amplifying or boosting device, and do poorly without them, and I have no idea what that means in terms of my Kawai - I'm rather sure that I don't need that kind of beast, but I also want to make sure that I avoid one and don't accidentally buy one.

[hardy_practice]

Frankly, I doubt your playing will be that nuanced in fact, anybody's playing.   I use Sennheiser but would never practice on a DP.  Get yourself an old Williams piano - made in Oshawa, high quality.

[keypeg]

Could everyone please ignore the trolling "answer" and not get sidetracked by it?  I asked a serious question, and it involves headphones.

[mike71]

I'm reviving this thread, because I'm not sure that my quest merits a new one.  My quite old Sony headphones, which came with the first used DP, are falling apart - the sound is now cutting in and out of one ear. I have done a bit of reading by now on the subject.  I have a question, and I don't know if I can verbalize it in a way that makes sense.

I normally use these headphones, right from the Vietnam war ;-)
https://www.koss.com/headphones/over-ear-headphones/pro4aa
Yes, they're ugly as hell, are quite heavy on the head, but they insulate really well from outside noises and are actually comfortable to wear. Only problem, they're high impedance so on some appliance, like cellphones or mp3 player don't perform well.

If you like Sony I've heard well of these
https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-professional-audio-headphones/mdr-7506/overview/

[keypeg]

I normally use these headphones, right from the Vietnam war ;-)
https://www.koss.com/headphones/over-ear-headphones/pro4aa
Yes, they're ugly as hell, are quite heavy on the head, but they insulate really well from outside noises and are actually comfortable to wear. Only problem, they're high impedance so on some appliance, like cellphones or mp3 player don't perform well.

If you like Sony I've heard well of these
https://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-professional-audio-headphones/mdr-7506/overview/

Thank you Mike.  I had a look and then found a comparison with the Sennheiser that I have seen recommended the most (within what is affordable for me).
https://versus.com/en/koss-pro4aat-vs-sennheiser-hd-598

Insulation from outside noises may actually important, because there are times when I'm trying to practise, or especially record, where sounds from family members interfere to some degree.

I have no particular feelings toward the Sony that I have.  Since it's the only set I've had for piano, I have no way of judging, but they seemed to do the job nicely enough: Sony MDR XD200

[hardy_practice]

Could everyone please ignore the trolling "answer" and not get sidetracked by it?  I asked a serious question, and it involves headphones.

Could everyone please note I actually recommended a make of headphone! and I just happen to teach Music Technology!

[hardy_practice]

Sheesh!

[keypeg]

The immediate problem may have been the stereo jack connection.  I remembered that I recently bought a $25 set of ear buds for another purpose, and I plugged these into the adaptor as a stopgap measure.  I had weak sound in one ear here too, and that was too much of a coincidence.  I fiddled with the jack, then both ear buds worked, and the headphone worked on both sides again too.

However, this was also a chance to test the influence of headphones on playing, since I've been taught (and have found) that you adjust your playing through careful listening.  I played part of the piece I'm currently working on using the earbuds, which are not meant for this.  Treble came through especially strongly.  I could hear some change in dynamics, but there is a part that goes from p to pp and adds the soft pedal.  I was not able to hear any difference.  I switched to the Sony headphones, played the same passage the same way, and I could clearly hear the difference in dynamics.  If your headphones do not reflect what you are doing as you are playing, then you can't adjust your playing - it affects learning as well. Obviously I never would have bought such earbuds to use with the piano, but it was an interesting experiment.

[keypeg]

Could everyone please note I actually recommended a make of headphone! and I just happen to teach Music Technology!

What you wrote was this:

Frankly, I doubt your playing will be that nuanced in fact, anybody's playing.   I use Sennheiser but would never practice on a DP.  Get yourself an old Williams piano - made in Oshawa, high quality.

- You did not recommend a make of headphone: you only stated what you use. You wrote that you never practise on a DP.  If by mentioning what you use, this was also intended as a recommendation, then thank you for that.
- You advised me to buy a different piano, when I'm not looking for a piano.  It's at this point that I asked others not to get side-tracked on the issue of pianos.  This also made your post confusing.

I actually looked up the Williams, thinking there must be an acoustic version since you were recommending it after saying that practising on a DP was a thing you wouldn't do.   After all, you wouldn't tell someone who has a digital piano, to buy a digital piano.  But I'm not able to find any acoustic Williams - the only references I can find are to dps.  The name Williams is actually familiar because recently a student having problems was asked what type of dp he was using, and when he stated it was a Williams, he was advised to get rid of it as a badly made piano with a spring action.  If you are advising me to replace the Kawai CA97 that I have with a digital piano of that make, I'm agog.  I am more than happy with my piano, and it was purchased after careful consideration and with the advice of competent people.  

I am not looking for a piano.  I was looking for headphones for the purpose that I stated.  Now that the problem seems to have been a loose connection in the stereo cable at the piano end, so that my old headset is working, it is no longer as urgent so I can afford talking about the OT part.

[hardy_practice]

Williams made pianos as good as any Steinway and Canadian to boot!   Hmm..., so I use headphones I wouldn't recommend?  Interesting conclusion.

[keypeg]

Mike71, thank you for your response, which was to my actual question.

[lhorwinkle]

My sympathies. It's clear hardy practice is a troll. His Williams recommendation is not only off-topic, but utterly ridiculous considering that Williams is probably the worst brand digital piano made.

As for headphones, I generally recommend open ones because they generally give better sound. Closed phones are sometimes too bassy, and they're frequently head-clamp painful. You'll have to decide for yourself by trying some.

Some people choose closed phones to help keep the sound IN, to avoid annoying those around them. But for piano this is not relevant unless you're carrying your piano into a library! Sound leakage is minimal. If you're leaking enough sound to bother others you're playing way too loudly!

But you seem to be favoring closed phones to help keep background noise OUT. That's never been a problem for me, so I cannot make any proper recommendation ... except to say try some phone for yourself. But where??

Well, I usually despise Guitar Center gear, but I recently discovered that they have a decent (not great, but decent) selection of headphones. At least that's so at the store near me. This gave me a new opportunity to try a variety of phones. They had many, most of them under $200.

From that experience I'm tempted to buy the Beyerdynamic DT700. IIRC it's a closed phone (or am I wrong?) but sounded very good anyway. And it was VERY comfortable. These go for $170 online.

My old pair is a Beyerdynamic DTX900, open phone. They were superceded by the DTX990 model, but I don't see that offered anywhere anymore. Too bad. These were quite good, and only $100.

I've also been tempted by the new Sennheiser 579 open phones at $120 (recently on sale for $100 at Amazon). I've not tried them, but they're tempting.

BTW, if you intend to plug the phones into your piano, you'll need to buy low- or moderate-impedance phones. The high-impedance phones will usually require a headphone amp. That's another $100 load on the wallet.

In the under $300 range most phones range from 32 ohms to something under 100 ohms (or are available in multiple impedances, one of which will be in the low range), and these will work with the piano.

You start running into trouble with phones that are at 300 ohms or more. But most of those are in the high-price range, far more than I'd ever spend.

What you wrote was this:- You did not recommend a make of headphone: you only stated what you use. You wrote that you never practise on a DP.  If by mentioning what you use, this was also intended as a recommendation, then thank you for that.
- You advised me to buy a different piano, when I'm not looking for a piano.  It's at this point that I asked others not to get side-tracked on the issue of pianos.  This also made your post confusing.

I actually looked up the Williams, thinking there must be an acoustic version since you were recommending it after saying that practising on a DP was a thing you wouldn't do.   After all, you wouldn't tell someone who has a digital piano, to buy a digital piano.  But I'm not able to find any acoustic Williams - the only references I can find are to dps.  The name Williams is actually familiar because recently a student having problems was asked what type of dp he was using, and when he stated it was a Williams, he was advised to get rid of it as a badly made piano with a spring action.  If you are advising me to replace the Kawai CA97 that I have with a digital piano of that make, I'm agog.  I am more than happy with my piano, and it was purchased after careful consideration and with the advice of competent people.  

I am not looking for a piano.  I was looking for headphones for the purpose that I stated.  Now that the problem seems to have been a loose connection in the stereo cable at the piano end, so that my old headset is working, it is no longer as urgent so I can afford talking about the OT part.

[ted]

Currently I use Sennheiser HD 6XX (closed), but I still often use my Grado (over ear), particularly for piano music, as they have a wonderful clarity nothing else has matched so far. As with sound equipment in general, above a certain quality the effect becomes very subjective. I haven't the faintest idea what they cost as my son gave both to me as presents after trying dozens of others. Probably best I don't know as he should be saving at present.

[keypeg]

I want to thank both lhorwinkle and Ted for your feedback.  I've taken it all in.

Well, when I started this question, I was getting confused by discussion on another site, because people seemed to be discussing headphones based on the listening pleasure they were getting.  some of the headphones had a "fantastic bass", "amazing treble" and so forth.  I wasn't sure what that meant, because I didn't understand the technology enough.  Put simply, if I am trying to learn to bring out a soprano line, making it louder than the lower pitched accompaniment, I don't want anything boosting it artificially, or I want be able to tell what I'm actually doing as a learning pianist.  I didn't know whether that is what these "amazing" things were doing.  I wanted what I'm doing to be reflected in what I'm hearing.  At this point, I'm rather sure that what I was imagining isn't what was meant.  (I've done some studying).  I.e., whatever the "amazing" headphones do does not involve artificially changing the produced sound in my ear.

I did discover something, though, when I plugged the little ear buds into the piano via the adapter, and then went back to my Sony headphone.  As I related, I played the same passage twice, making sure I was making the same physical movements, and the ear buds did not catch the dynamic contrast nearly as finely, so that there was a disconnect between what I was doing and what I was hearing.  That would be detrimental to learning to play.  So I know that quality of ear phones (or particular qualities of ear phones) can have an effect on our learning to play.  At least I got that far.

BTW, if you intend to plug the phones into your piano, you'll need to buy low- or moderate-impedance phones. The high-impedance phones will usually require a headphone amp. That's another $100 load on the wallet.

In the under $300 range most phones range from 32 ohms to something under 100 ohms (or are available in multiple impedances, one of which will be in the low range), and these will work with the piano.

You start running into trouble with phones that are at 300 ohms or more. But most of those are in the high-price range, far more than I'd ever spend.

A couple of weeks ago I wouldn't have understood anything other than that the more expensive ones aren't worth it, and you need a secondary thing, the amp.  I was running into so many words like ohms and impedance (never had high school physics; went to school in the 1960's when technology was way different) - a Coursera course on technology came along and I'm in the middle of it.   A bit of overkill, but at least the lingo is starting to make sense.

Closed phones are sometimes too bassy, and they're frequently head-clamp painful.

I even understand why they're bassy, now - feedback on various closed 'phones often mentions the head-clamp problem.

But you seem to be favoring closed phones to help keep background noise OUT.

I have tried to record things for my teacher, and in the middle of it, somebody goes to the microwave and you hear arhythmic "beep beepbeep ...... beep beepbeepbeep ... beep-beep-beep-BEE-EE-EE-EEP" (I'm recalling a recent session where that happened repeatedly and that's my motivator.  i'll have to ask myself how often that actually happens.)

I've also been tempted by the new Sennheiser 579 open phones at $120 (recently on sale for $100 at Amazon)

The one I kept hearing about was the 598. Now I'm looking at the 579.  Do you know how it might be different?  (Of course I'll be looking that up next.)
I'm looking at Canadian prices. It says it was CAD $269 and has been reduced to $139 (CAD).

Currently I use Sennheiser HD 6XX (closed)...

That's the one folks were gravitating toward on the other site as superior to the 579, but it was something like more than twice the price.

but I still often use my Grado (over ear), particularly for piano music, as they have a wonderful clarity nothing else has matched so far...

I have not heard of this one before.  Interesting.  Clarity is good, I'm thinking.

As with sound equipment in general, above a certain quality the effect becomes very subjective.

That makes sense.

[markh13]

Just to add my two penneth...

I use Sennheiser HD598 with my NU1X, and have found the sound quality to be fantastic... Rich, dynamic, powerful, open and transparent.

There is a little sound leakage from them, but this is minimal. They do not isolate you from outside sounds as well as closed phones, but for me this is an advantage (my environment is quiet, and it means I can here the doorbell!).

But if you're playing in a noisy room (e.g. kids running around, TV on) they probably wouldn't be ideal!

[stevenbrown]

Considering the price I still have no problem recommending either the Logitech g930 or the Corsair Wireless Vengeance/h 2100. You just have to take extra care not to over rotate or over extend the ear pieces. I own both and in my case the cracking didn't show up for at least 2 years. I will give kudos to Corsair service. I sent my Corsair Vengeance 2000 for an RMA and got a brand new vengeance 2100 replacement from them. It's currently sitting in the box as my "spare".

Between the two I would say the corsair sounds the best, but has terrible range. The logitech g930 sounds good, has excellent range and has the added functional buttons. It gets my pick as the better of the two unless sound quality is super important. If you can spend a bit more I would look into Corsairs new wireless void headset. It's a bit cheaper then Logitech's upcoming g933, and hopefully they've learned from their mistakes. Initial reviews are looking very positive.

[ranjit]

It's been my experience that having a flat frequency profile is really important. I got myself the AKG K371s, and they sound imo very good with a DAC, enough for suspension of disbelief for me. On a digital piano, I could clearly tell the difference between the AKG and an Audio technica M-series one I had previously. The bass sounded more real, and it was overall more believable -- at points, I took off the headphones and checked whether they were actually plugged in or not.

Apart from design flaws with the chassis, I had a pretty good experience with mine. I don't know enough about sound perception to know if true flat frequency response is ideal -- the AKGs try to meet the Harman target response (which is different from a real flat frequency response), but I have found them quite convincing.

However, you do want to look at the frequency chart and take note of any steep bumps -- try to get a headphone which is within 5 - 10 dB across the frequency spectrum (there are graphs available online for most common models). Preferably, you want it within 3 dB for most of the middle range from about 100-6000-odd Hz. Any significant difference in those frequencies will be very audible. Headphone marketing will try to downplay these, but I felt it mattered a lot. Within that ~5 dB band, it's more subjective imo, and you have a bit more leeway when it comes to the low bass and high highs. Pianos have a very strong bass, so try to get some decent yet balanced bass frequency response, or else the sound will lack oomph.

Disclaimer: not a professional, follow at your own risk