memorize czerny

[drazh]

hi
do you as a teachers  expect  your students to memorize czerny opus 599 studies? or  only sight read them?
and do you expect them to play perfectly as for performance or accept some imperfections?
excuse me i asked this question  at student section but  there was no reply
thank you

[pianowolfi]

If I did, even remotely, expect something like this from my students I'd be out of business within 2 months. Well, perhaps rather within 2 weeks  

[j_menz]

No brain is so empty that it could profitably be filled with Czerny. 

[drazh]

hi
very good responses .what about imperfections of doing studies ?
is that acceptable or not?
thank you

[johnmar78]

for more gifted student, yes, less gifted, no.

[j_menz]

what about imperfections of doing studies ? is that acceptable or not?

Czerny studies are designed to improve a certain aspect of technique. No imperfection in that aspect should be acceptable (as the final goal).

If your imperfections are in other aspects, such as musicality, then I wouldn't be so concerned. I have no idea how anyone makes music from Czerny anyway.

[drazh]

Czerny studies are designed to improve a certain aspect of technique. No imperfection in that aspect should be acceptable (as the final goal).

so you mean it should be memorize or site read at full tempo without even one wrong notes?
thank you

[j_menz]

so you mean it should be memorize or site read at full tempo without even one wrong notes?
thank you

Ideally. The odd wrong note is probably OK, but if you keep making the same error, it is generally a sign that you are doing something more fundamentally wrong at that point (fingering or hand position being most likely in Czerny) and you do need to find out what it is and fix it.

[jmanpno]

Twats!  Any and all can memorize.  HA!

[j_menz]

Twats!  Any and all can memorize.  HA!

Another secret you will refrain from sharing?

I, for one, remember nothing.

[mike_lang]

If I did, even remotely, expect something like this from my students I'd be out of business within 2 months. Well, perhaps rather within 2 weeks  

Why?

[49410enrique]

probably like has been mentioned above it depends on the caliber of student you have, the standard to which you require a work/lesson assigment and your general teaching preference. at my previous school one of the professors (she tended to draw have many of the most gifted students, i.e. many came to this school specifically to study with her) required every piece studied to be fully memorized by the first piano lesson or she would not hear you /teach and basically either send you back to practice or have you not bother showing up if you didn't come in with the work/study etc fully memorized and prepped for a productive lesson.  on my end memorization was always required but not always by the first lesson but definately by several in it was expected and definately held the learning back if you didn't know the notes down pat by a certain point.

[pianowolfi]

Why?

Sometimes I suggested some Czerny, but never with great success. I think there were only 3 or 4 students from me who played 1 or 2 Czerny pieces. People here usually strongly dislike Czerny. And they hear from their parents and grandparents about Czerny that they had to play it in their youth and that it was terribly boring.

[jmanpno]

jmenz... this one i will go into over the intraweb.  quite simply it is either a function of an emotional disorder and the inability to use mnemonic devices effectively.

[j_menz]

jmenz... this one i will go into over the intraweb.  quite simply it is either a function of an emotional disorder and the inability to use mnemonic devices effectively.

Or simply a lack of either need or interest.

[jmanpno]

j_menz, you are simply going to be a thorn in my side for as long as we both exist.  i shall have to go about getting you banned. 

in any event you asked what the secrets about memorization were... you could not say that you cannot remember anything if there was no interest!  you would never try.

i've noticed that this place does not do well with words like *** (@s$h0!e) but till I can work on that too, you sir are a twat.

[j_menz]

in any event you asked what the secrets about memorization were... you could not say that you cannot remember anything if there was no interest!  you would never try.

I do have an interest in it; I'd love to have some pieces memorised. I just don't have enough interest to sit down and work at it. If you have tips on making it easy, I'm all ears.

[jmanpno]

mnemonic devices....

[mike_lang]

I do have an interest in it; I'd love to have some pieces memorised. I just don't have enough interest to sit down and work at it. If you have tips on making it easy, I'm all ears.

We have as much interest in your pianistic development as you do ;-)

[haydnseeker]

If memorising Czerny is a problem for you, be grateful you weren't one of Goldenweiser's students:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=43608.msg479282#msg479282

I hope she benefited from all that work!  (My Schirmer copy of Op. 740 has 175 pages of score.)

I do think it's advantageous to memorise studies, even when they're not pieces that are ever going to played to an audience.  If I'm trying to strengthen or extend my technique through a study, then I want to be totally focused on the playing and not be distracted by having to read.  Czerny is so predictable musically that memorising his pieces isn't very challenging.

[j_menz]

Czerny is so predictable musically that memorising his pieces isn't very challenging.

Neither is reading them.

[ajspiano]

I do have an interest in it; I'd love to have some pieces memorised. I just don't have enough interest to sit down and work at it. If you have tips on making it easy, I'm all ears.

I doubt it would be even close to easy if you don't do it intuitively - its pretty simple though..

Memorise the score visually and theoretically - memorise the look of the keys played visually - memorise the sound of the notes.... conciously link them together.

Do this by...
writing out the score from memory -
Read the piece once, then attempt to play it from memory (small sections) - rinse and repeat
hear the notes in your head as you play - if you get stuck playing from memory attempt to find the notes by ear without looking at the score..

^no doubt qualifies as too much effort for you..

it works both ways though really doesnt it - I'm a fairly stella 'memorisor' / ear player - but my reading is pretty weak..

[j_menz]

^no doubt qualifies as too much effort for you..

Haha, yep.

it works both ways though really doesnt it - I'm a fairly stella 'memorisor' / ear player - but my reading is pretty weak..

My reading is actually pretty good, and if I read through a piece a few times it gets a lot better. Obviously I'm memorising something, but I still need the score there to do anything.