How long is a usual undergraduate college audition repertoire?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Hey what's up?  I've asked several people and they all gave me different answers.  And the websites don't specify either

So these are my target schools:
Eastman
Boston Conservatory
Oberlin
New England Conservatory
Manhattan school of music
Sanfrancisco Conservatory

So how long would an audition be for those schools?

I'm preparing an hour long audition, but I fear that I'm going to take too long.

[bachbrahmsschubert]

With audition questions for specific schools, ALWAYS contact the school directly. Even if the website says something and you're not sure. Some schools (MSM) are in the process of updating their website, so some information is not consistent with their curriculum.

The average audition will run 10-15 minutes. Don't worry about the duration of the pre-screen recordings, just make sure they're good.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Seriously only that long?  Is it possible that the program is an hour long but the audition is only 10-15 minutes?

[quantum]

Is it possible that the program is an hour long but the audition is only 10-15 minutes?

Very likely.


You may be asked to prepare 1 hour of music, but that can be very different to how much the jury has time to listen to.  You may be asked to play specific sections of pieces, so be prepared to start in the middle of one.  Eg: can you play the development of the Beethoven sonata.  

Also be prepared to answer questions about the pieces on your program.  Eg: if you select a WTC P&F can you give some general comments about the WTC.  No need to recite a book, but at least know something about the music you have selected.  

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Also be prepared to answer questions about the pieces on your program.  Eg: if you select a WTC P&F can you give some general comments about the WTC.  No need to recite a book, but at least know something about the music you have selected.  

Not a problem!  I'm such a geek so I look up everything about everything that's related to music.  Give me a composer, I can write a book about him/her!  Give me a piece and I can write a whole essay on it!  You name a piece or a composer, I know it!

[bachbrahmsschubert]

Not a problem!  I'm such a geek so I look up everything about everything that's related to music.  Give me a composer, I can write a book about him/her!  Give me a piece and I can write a whole essay on it!  You name a piece or a composer, I know it!

Yes, well, try not to answer their questions that way. Speak with confidence, but stay modest. An undergraduate student who thinks they are unstoppable and omnipotent will put you into a negative light.

With the audition repertoire required, it is expected that you have around 45 minutes of music prepared; however, they will most likely not listen to more than 15 minutes of it.

[quantum]

In addition to what bachbrahmsschubert said.  If they ask you where you get all your info from, don't even think about mentioning Wikipedia.  Profs already get enough essays handed in by current students that cite references to Wikipedia. 

[werq34ac]

Some big schools you have there.

Anyway, I was under the impression that they listen to snippets of everything. Although they might not get to everything. Middle/last movements of your sonata might be neglected, or the prelude from your Bach WTC might be ignored. BUT you never know what they are going to listen to in the end.

As for how MUCH music, you should prepare EXACTLY what they tell you to prepare. All of the schools I've looked at had specific requirements (luckily most of them overlap).

The general format seems to be
1. Something by Bach, probably a prelude and fugue from WTC
2. Classical Sonata (safest is Beethoven since some schools like Indiana University specifically ask for Beethoven)
3. Romantic piece
4. 20th/21st century piece
5. An etude or two displaying your technical prowess.

That adds up to something like an hour.

But in the end, you'll want to look up ALL the requirements for EACH school since they all differ slightly. You may end up ruling out some schools.

Although I'm told that the jury ALWAYS listens to your Bach fugue and they ALWAYS listen to the coda of Chopin Ballade 1 if you've prepared that piece for them.


AND don't neglect to practice anything. You really can't tell what they are going to ask for. They might ask for your 2nd movement of your classical sonata to see how you fare with those kinds of pieces. Or they may not. You really don't know. SO be safe.

[slobone]

I would add that the Bach fugue should be one of the 4 or 5 voice ones. Sometimes they say that explicitly.

You can check difficulty levels on the Henle website, to make sure that the pieces you're choosing are considered hard enough to get in you into one of these schools. Good luck!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Some big schools you have there.

Anyway, I was under the impression that they listen to snippets of everything. Although they might not get to everything. Middle/last movements of your sonata might be neglected, or the prelude from your Bach WTC might be ignored. BUT you never know what they are going to listen to in the end.

As for how MUCH music, you should prepare EXACTLY what they tell you to prepare. All of the schools I've looked at had specific requirements (luckily most of them overlap).

The general format seems to be
1. Something by Bach, probably a prelude and fugue from WTC
2. Classical Sonata (safest is Beethoven since some schools like Indiana University specifically ask for Beethoven)
3. Romantic piece
4. 20th/21st century piece
5. An etude or two displaying your technical prowess.

That adds up to something like an hour.

But in the end, you'll want to look up ALL the requirements for EACH school since they all differ slightly. You may end up ruling out some schools.

Although I'm told that the jury ALWAYS listens to your Bach fugue and they ALWAYS listen to the coda of Chopin Ballade 1 if you've prepared that piece for them.


AND don't neglect to practice anything. You really can't tell what they are going to ask for. They might ask for your 2nd movement of your classical sonata to see how you fare with those kinds of pieces. Or they may not. You really don't know. SO be safe.

So far I've chosen the Pathetique sonata, Chopin etude op. 10 no. 12 (I might do La Campanella for some schools) and Rachmaninoff variations on a theme of Corelli.  The Bach and the 20th century piece seems hard to choose.

[quantum]

Both the Pathetique and Etude 10/12 are frequently played.  Some profs tend to turn off their ears (and the coconut that lies between) when they have heard a piece played too many times.  You may wish to take that into consideration.  In order to stand out from the crowd and get noticed you really need to do something different: which after all is what you are aiming for when you present yourself.  You want them to give you that offer of admission to their school. 

I'm not saying don't play these pieces.  I'm just saying be aware of the bigger picture.  If you absolutely own these pieces, it may actually be advantageous. 

[slobone]

According to the Henle website, the three hardest fugues are the A minor from Book I and the D# minor and G minor from Book II.

But I'm curious about what quantum said, because my understanding is that in auditions it's better to play familiar pieces. Otherwise the jury doesn't really know how to evaluate your performance. Maybe something in between is best? Familiar enough so they know the piece, but not something they're sick of hearing.

[quantum]

For an audition the jury is not under pressure to assign a numerical grade: as contrasted to a performance jury or recital jury for an enrolled student.  The goal is more to find out whether the student will be a good fit to the school.  Thus as an applicant you want to be remembered, and put on that list. 

Yes, there really are profs who cease to think rationally when they get sick of a piece (some of these profs have been my teachers).  IMO familiarity of a piece is more important to the performer than it is to the listener.  For the applicant, familiarity and comfort with a piece will allow a more fluid expression of ideas, as opposed to trudging through a piece you don't really understand.  Presenting a piece that is unknown to the jury could get them out of the rut of evaluating a piece based on their perceptions of president.  Then again, you could go with the middle ground and choose from the canon a piece that is less frequently performed at auditions.  Whatever the piece chosen focus on a quality presentation.  It is not necessarily to perform at the threshold of your technical abilities.  Your goal is to convince them to give that offer of admission. 

[oxy60]

All very sound advice but has anyone actually been through an audition like the one mentioned?

The poster should be careful about perspective. If you get in then be prepared to be surrounded by folks just like yourself,  only more so; like you to the 9th power!

Good luck.

[werq34ac]

According to the Henle website, the three hardest fugues are the A minor from Book I and the D# minor and G minor from Book II.

But I'm curious about what quantum said, because my understanding is that in auditions it's better to play familiar pieces. Otherwise the jury doesn't really know how to evaluate your performance. Maybe something in between is best? Familiar enough so they know the piece, but not something they're sick of hearing.

Although those are the 3 hardest, it really doesn't matter which Bach you play. You could go in with C major from book 1 for all they care. I would pick the prelude and fugue that you like the most. And I've never heard that the fugue has to be 4 or 5 voices. Maybe for Masters or Doctorate?

I agree with the quantum about the Pathetique and Chopin Revolutionary. These are just too popular and the jury may be thinking oh no not another one. You really need to stand out if you play a popular piece. With that in mind, you might want to avoid the Tempest, Apassionata, Les Adieux, and most definitely the Moonlight. While the Tempest and Apassionata and Les Adieux are nice pieces to audition with, there will be a LOT of students playing these pieces. You have to play extremely well in order to get in to places like Eastman and the New England Conservatory.

As for the Rachmaninoff, that would probably go as your 20th century pieces. I'm not exactly sure (you may want to email someone from the school you're looking at) whether they accept Rachmaninoff as a romantic composer or a 20th century composer.


As for familiarity with the pieces, there's no need to worry about a piece being TOO unfamiliar. In fact, if you manage to actually FIND a piece that the jury is unfamiliar with, then they won't recognize as many things you are doing wrong.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Both the Pathetique and Etude 10/12 are frequently played.  Some profs tend to turn off their ears (and the coconut that lies between) when they have heard a piece played too many times.  You may wish to take that into consideration.  In order to stand out from the crowd and get noticed you really need to do something different: which after all is what you are aiming for when you present yourself.  You want them to give you that offer of admission to their school. 

I'm not saying don't play these pieces.  I'm just saying be aware of the bigger picture.  If you absolutely own these pieces, it may actually be advantageous. 

I told that to my teacher and he was like, that's ridiculous.  Because the judges shouldn't discriminate between pieces.  Besides, EVERYTHING is frequently played. 

However, I do feel like that the judges will have an unconscious bias against certain pieces.  But then my teacher also said that's ridiculous and if a judge is biased, then that person isn't a good judge.

[werq34ac]

I told that to my teacher and he was like, that's ridiculous.  Because the judges shouldn't discriminate between pieces.  Besides, EVERYTHING is frequently played. 

However, I do feel like that the judges will have an unconscious bias against certain pieces.  But then my teacher also said that's ridiculous and if a judge is biased, then that person isn't a good judge.

It DOES make a difference however. Popular pieces like those will be played many many times compared to a lesser known piece. The judges will likely hear in audition the Tempest Sonata at least 60 times in one year as opposed to say, 10/2 which only maybe 10 or 15 people will play. (These are very rough estimates). If you play the Tempest Sonata, you have about 60 other people that the jury will be measuring you up against. While it's not difficult to compare performances of different sonatas, it is MUCH easier to compare performances of the same sonata.

Although in the end, if you feel your Tempest Sonata (for example's sake) is quite excellent, then it probably is worth playing instead of a lesser known sonata. I mean there's no reason NOT to play the Tempest sonata other than that. But then again there's no reason NOT to play a lesser known sonata.

I actually don't know about the Pathetique though. Since it is SO overplayed, perhaps not very many people will audition with it. If yours is particularly outstanding, it could appear very outstanding, with not very many other people playing it.

Remember that what you are striving for is memorability. You want to make an impression on the judges rather than be placed with the 30 or so decent, but not outstanding Tempest Sonatas.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Since it is SO overplayed, perhaps not very many people will audition with it

Haha I thought about that too!  Because everyone's like, 'oh no, don't play overplayed pieces because everyone plays them!' and potentially, people don't play them lol

[bachbrahmsschubert]

I can't agree more with the advice quantum and others have given.

For the sake of "authentication", I am a student at the Colburn conservatory and just finished up auditions for graduate school. Then again, I could be lying, so does it really matter what I say I am on these forums?

To think auditioning with familiar pieces doesn't matter is ludicrous. This is an audition. You have to find a way to separate yourself from the crowd. This isn't your debut performance at Carnegie Hall where repertoire is less important and most everyone will love you regardless. You are applying with A LOT of TALENTED applicants. I feel that it's wrong to think of how many applicants are applying with this academic year. Think of the professors you will be auditioning for, most of them have been teachers for many, many years. This only compounds the issue of submitting familiar works. Also keep in mind that you will have to submit a prescreen recording to these conservatories. It really doesn't help to play the typical works. Quite honestly, I wouldn't audition with Beethoven at all, instead I prefer Schubert. And while that is said, Chopin is one of my favorite composers, but I will always shy away from him when performing. All of his work have been performed quite frequently, it's honestly quite boring. Maybe a couple of Mazurkas as an encore (if I'm lucky enough!). Anyway...

Ultimately, you're going to do what you want and what your teacher suggests. And, ultimately, you should submit and audition with the pieces you play the best; however, if you audition with a lesser known piece and play it well, it really shows a lot about you. Most importantly, it shows that you take the time to research and study composers that are out of the common gaze.

It doesn't matter how many voices your Bach fugue has. The E minor fugue from book 1 is exceptionally difficult and it is only 2 voices. The inventions can be tricky, and those are only two voices as well.

Most schools will count Rachmaninoff as a 19th century composer although most of his compositional output was in the 20th century. But please please please, check with the schools directly (be sure to talk to either the director of keyboard studies or a professor of piano).

[quantum]

I told that to my teacher and he was like, that's ridiculous.  Because the judges shouldn't discriminate between pieces.  Besides, EVERYTHING is frequently played. 

However, I do feel like that the judges will have an unconscious bias against certain pieces.  But then my teacher also said that's ridiculous and if a judge is biased, then that person isn't a good judge.

Agree with you there.  It is completely ridiculous that there should be subjective bias shown by profs with credentials, and years of experience in the classroom and concert hall.  Welcome to the real world.  I'm sorry to say, I have encountered such discrimination by distinguished profs all too frequently.  It is there and it is very real! 

Let me reiterate: your goal in the audition is to make yourself memorable and to obtain an offer of admission.  If you disagree with evaluation practices or issues of fair and equal treatment, fine.  However, the audition is not the place to be stating your claims on these issues.  You can do that later when you write papers, or go into grad school and defend a thesis.  Your objective at the audition is to obtain the offer of admission, and like it or not, you need to recognize that there is a chance you will be judged subjectively.  What you can do is to minimize the risk of these subjective evaluations through a carefully thought out choice in the material you present, and the manner in which you present it. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

however, if you audition with a lesser known piece and play it well, it really shows a lot about you. Most importantly, it shows that you take the time to research and study composers that are out of the common gaze.

Well aside from the Pathetique and the Chopin etude, I think I'm playing things that are pretty out the common gaze?  Too bad I don't think that I would have enough time to get another Sonata up to 100%.  I was thinking of learning Appassionata because I heard that ALWAYS brings down the house, but it's probably too late noooooo!!!!    

For instance the Rachmaninoff variations on a theme of Coreli?  I don't think that's too common.  And I'm thinking of learning Schoenberg's three piano pieces Op. 11 for my 20th century?  I wanna try something Atonal.  Have any suggestions?

But it's ridiculous how judges have a prejudice against certain pieces, music is music!

But if I have spare time, I could try to learn another sonata real quick.  I only have a year so...

[werq34ac]

It's not exactly bias, but hear a piece 20 times in one day and you're going to get pretty bored with it.

[philb]

I wanna try something Atonal.  Have any suggestions?

I would be inclined to say late Scriabin. If you have played works of Scriabin in the past, sonata 9 might be something interesting to look at. I would say it is the easiest of his sonatas, but don't get me wrong, it still is an extremely difficult work. Maybe Op. 74? Take a look at some of his works above Op. 50ish and you can find many sublime and interesting pieces.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I would be inclined to say late Scriabin. If you have played works of Scriabin in the past, sonata 9 might be something interesting to look at. I would say it is the easiest of his sonatas, but don't get me wrong, it still is an extremely difficult work. Maybe Op. 74? Take a look at some of his works above Op. 50ish and you can find many sublime and interesting pieces.

I asked my teacher any of Scriabins lovely late sonatas but my teacher said no for they are too difficult.  I specifically asked him about the 9th one but thats really difficult to play musically.  

Also is 9th sonata isn't REALLY atonal.

[philb]

I asked my teacher any of Scriabins lovely late sonatas but my teacher said no for they are too difficult.  I specifically asked him about the 9th one but thats really difficult to play musically.  

Also is 9th sonata isn't REALLY atonal.

True, but the real definition of atonality is subjective.

[chrobo]

my piano teacher said it was not a really good idea to pick pieces which are too well-known...

[oxy60]

Try to put yourself in the position of your listeners. What are they looking for? Why would they choose you to come to their school?

From your point of view ask yourself what is it they will offer you.

There is whole lot more to this process than playing a brilliant audition at concert level.

[slane]

Is it possible that the examiners will also see more unusual repertoire selections as indicative of a broader knowledge of the repertoire and therefore you garner a few points? 

[werq34ac]

Is it possible that the examiners will also see more unusual repertoire selections as indicative of a broader knowledge of the repertoire and therefore you garner a few points? 

I wouldn't say indicative of broader knowledge. Though more unusual repertoire can still garner a few points. For one thing, the judges won't be thinking, oh god not another one.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Can you play more than one of the same genre of music? 

Like for instance,  I'm thinking of adding Rachmaninoff prelude op 32 no 10 to his variations on a theme of corelli.

[quantum]

Most often the school will stipulate time periods, genres, composers, etc of which they would like to hear.  If a composer falls into more than one category, it is generally accepted that contrasting works be chosen. 

Similar if the school does not give any direction towards genre: say if the requirement is to prepare five pieces of your own choice.  You would try to give as much variety within the choices as possible. 

They want to see what you are capable of, how versatile you are, how you distinguish between contrasting music in your interpretations. 

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Most often the school will stipulate time periods, genres, composers, etc of which they would like to hear.  If a composer falls into more than one category, it is generally accepted that contrasting works be chosen. 

Similar if the school does not give any direction towards genre: say if the requirement is to prepare five pieces of your own choice.  You would try to give as much variety within the choices as possible. 

They want to see what you are capable of, how versatile you are, how you distinguish between contrasting music in your interpretations. 

Sorry, but I don't think that answers my question.  The audition program has to be like an hour long right?  What if you're short a couple minutes?  Can you add a different piece of the same Genre?  So could I have two romantic works to play in stead of one?

[werq34ac]

An hour is a very rough estimate of how long your program will be. They will only listen to 15 minutes of this and that, but what you should have prepared totals very roughly up to one hour.

general format is Bach, Classical sonata, Romantic, Modern, and etudes, so...
Bach: 3-8 minutes
Classical Sonata:15-30 minutes
Romantic: 10 minutes usually
Modern: 5-10 minutes, who knows
Etude: 5-10 minutes
Which means it could be anywhere from about 40 minutes to a little over an hour. It just depends on what you are playing. But you should do EXACTLY what each school asks for.

[j_menz]

I'm having trouble following where we're up to.  Is your program as follows?

Bach P&F from WTC (unidecided which?)
Beethoven Pathetique Sonata
Chopin Etude 10/12 or Liszt La Campanella
Rachmaninoff Variations on a theme by Corelli
Schoenberg Three Piano Pieces Op11

If so, and if you're looking to add another piece, I'd go for something impressionist - Debussy or Ravel (or mayber Ibert or someone less familiar). You're already pretty heavily Romantic (your etude is romantic and the Beethoven is on the Romantic side of classical).

[quantum]

The audition program has to be like an hour long right? 

The school will state their requirements.  A one hour program is a good general fit for most programs.  However, never assume.  Find out the exact details for every school you are applying to.  If there is no printed material to go by, give them a call. 

As werq34ac said, in most cases they will not listen to everything.  Don't obsess about timing to much.  The jury is probably trying to figure out how they can fit all the applicants their given time slot.  As long as you are roughly around one hour (or whatever the requirement is) you should be fine. 

The classical sonata is often the biggest eater of time.  If you choose wisely, you can take 30-40 mins with the sonata alone. 

If you want to choose multiple works from the same time period, go with contrast.  For example: Debussy and Albeniz,  Bach and Scarlatti. 

If you want to expand your choices you could go pre-Baroque.  It is not often that pianists present this music for auditions.  Eg: Clérambault, Sweelinck

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Got it!

Chopin etude op.10 no.12
Beethoven sonata Pathetique op.10 no.13
Bach prelude and fugue G# minor from WTC
Rachmaninoff variations on a theme of Corelli op.42
Rachmaninoff prelude op.32 no.10
Schoenberg three pieces op.11