Is there any Rachmaninoff I can play or should I just give up?

[slobone]

Hi, I'm working without a teacher at the moment and trying not to jump ahead too fast. I'm an intermediate player about at the level of Bach WTC, Chopin Mazurkas, some of the Brahms pieces. I'm an excellent sight reader and I'm working my way through the Haydn and Scarlatti sonatas. I realize Rach is mostly harder than any of these, but I love his music and I'm hoping I can stretch enough to play something by him.

I got the Dover edition of the Preludes and I've been looking at some of the slower ones -- the C# minor, 23/1, 23/4. Are there any others I should consider, or other Rach pieces? Which edition is the best?

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Rachmaninoff prelude op 32 no 10!  Rachmaninoff himself said it was his favorite piece!

It's a relatively slow piece, but the only difficult part is getting the melody out of those loud four note to five note chords and the uncomfortable scale thing at the end.

[slobone]

Thanks rf, I should have known you'd come up with something. I just looked it over -- won't try playing it till tomorrow.

But this raises a general question about a lot of his pieces. When you have chords that are supposed to be held over, and meanwhile you move your hands to a different part of the keyboard, how do you do that? Just keep the pedal down? Because the edition that I have doesn't indicate any pedal markings.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Thanks rf, I should have known you'd come up with something. I just looked it over -- won't try playing it till tomorrow.

But this raises a general question about a lot of his pieces. When you have chords that are supposed to be held over, and meanwhile you move your hands to a different part of the keyboard, how do you do that? Just keep the pedal down? Because the edition that I have doesn't indicate any pedal markings.

A LOT infact probably MOST of music don't have pedal markings.  Well, at the least the music I've encountered don't have pedal markings.  But with Rachmaninoff, you can never get enough pedal, unless if you change it only like twice through out the eintire piece lol.  I recommend that you should listen to Lazar Bermans interpretation of this before you begin it.  I don't know how good you are, so I can't say if this is too difficult for you or not.

[j_menz]

But this raises a general question about a lot of his pieces. When you have chords that are supposed to be held over, and meanwhile you move your hands to a different part of the keyboard, how do you do that? Just keep the pedal down? Because the edition that I have doesn't indicate any pedal markings.

You can also use the sostenuto (middle) pedal, if your piano has one (and one that does what it's supposed to).

[redbaron]

You could try Moment Musical No 3 in B minor. Should be within your ability, it's a beautiful piece and well worth anyone's time.

[49410enrique]

this one isn't terribly difficult (didn' say easy but it is def not a bugger to get through like some others), particularly like this 'rare jewel' since in essence it is composed by several of my fav composers.  really neat to see how they each treated the material"

YT viddy desc:
"Collaborative work of Taneyev, Rachmaninoff, Arensky and Glazunov, each of them composed a few bars of every improvisation. Names are written in Russian, but it's quite easy to recognize them even if you can't read cyrillic."

..hint,  me thinks around 1:50, 2:20ish...2:5...
hint, Рахманинов Сергей Васильевич ....

[slobone]

Rachmaninoff prelude op 32 no 10!  Rachmaninoff himself said it was his favorite piece!

It's a relatively slow piece, but the only difficult part is getting the melody out of those loud four note to five note chords and the uncomfortable scale thing at the end.

You mean that shimmery stuff in the grace notes at the end? I don't think I'll be able to play them as fast as Berman does. Although that passage doesn't look to hard to learn, as opposed to similar passages in Chopin where he has 8 against 23 or whatever.

But I'm not necessarily trying to bring any of these things up to performance level. I naturally want to play them well, and find out what I can learn from them, but if I have to cheat on the tempo here or there it's not the end of the world.

[_nisa_]

To answer the primary question: "sure, there are Rachmaninoff pieces you can handle!"
He has reputation to write difficult pieces but in fact let's put it this way "he has nearly not written any easy piece". Also, taking into account the pieces you are currently dealing with, you can easily try most of Rachmaninoff pieces (however, you should more or less dedicated depending on the piece). Sight-reading is a must for his pieces as they are quite thick in structure, and sometimes tedious to read. So... go!

About the not-so-hard preludes:
Op 3 No 2: you can easily deal with it. It will introduce you to big chords in the A section (not necessarily a problem if you have small hands, it is just a matter of position since it is quite slow) and multiple lines in the B section
Op 23 No 1: easier I think than Op 3 No 2 (I never played it though)
Op 23 No 4: same
Op 23 No 10: the easier of his set of preludes
Op 32 No 5: if you are familiar with cross-rythm then it can be easy... else it is quite challenging. You can still give a try to the beginning and the section where the left hand changes and the right becomes faster. If you do survive, then it is easy
Op 32 No 12: is harder but should be manageable. It is not slow but t is not its difficulty. The problem here is its variety.

Do not think 32 10 is easy. It is very challenging for coordination in section A, and musicality in section B + a hard cadenza.

You can also look at various other pieces by him that are really nice such as Etude-Tableaux (some are not devilish, 39 2 comes in mind), Lilacs (although hard), or his Moment Musicaux (but forget about the even ones which are very difficult... look at 1, 3, 5) and I am sure I forget a lot of other pieces.


About the pedal: Beware not to use the pedal too much... It can become really blurry! I think I myself very rarely (never) let the pedal pressed when starting a new measure... and I should probably be ranked as an average amateur using too much pedal.
An example of careful pedaling is in Op 23 No 5 (you surely are familiar to it), it should be really accurate in section A and should really help building the Russian march theme. You spend most of the time with the pedal depressed here.
In fact, I know only one piece where Rachmaninoff wrote pedaling: Moment Musical 4... and I do not follow it (but I am a very bad example).


I think the best edition is Boosey & Hawkes... but still it is a matter of taste. If you can find different editions of the same piece, compare them carefully before buying.


Don't worry if you cheat the tempo here and there, as long as it is here and there, speed will build up with time!


Nisa

[werq34ac]

You might want to look at the Elegie Op. 3 no. 1. It isn't too difficult, absolutely beautiful. Might be a step up from the Chopin Mazurkas technically, and most certainly much more intense.

[richard_strauss]

How about some of his transcriptions?

[bugrad]

Take a look at Études-tableaux opus 33 etude in G minor (it's either number 5 or 8 depending on which listing you look at).  It's a beautiful piece and very playable....

[aintgotnorhythm]

How about Op. 11, Six Scenes for Piano Duet. These are fairly straightforward and if you get the Music Minus One version it comes with a CD accompaniment to either part.

[cranston53]

Hi Slobone,

Certainly take a look at the prelude in D major you have already mentioned - 23/4 - it's beautiful. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the slower tempo removes the challenge, you have to make sure to envelope the melody throughtout the second section and maintain rhythm for the final passages. It's musically quite challenging.

I would also recommend the Etude Tableaux op33 no 3. in C Minor. It's fabulous and extremely rachmaninoffy (if you can excuse the made up adjective). It opens with a Grave chordal procession, similar to Chopin that dissolves into hugely satisfying 7ths. The second section features lush, tempered arpeggios with the melody line ringing out and concludes with a very enjoyable crescendo that recalls the conclusion of the second movement of the 4th concerto (the melody is virtually identical).

It is tough and there's a lot going on, but I think it would be manageable if approached in the right way.

(PS. I always get worried when my students say they are good at sight reading. It invariably means they are dodging the work of truly committing a piece to memory. Make sure you're not busking through pieces. Get a pencil out and graft!!!)

[werq34ac]

(PS. I always get worried when my students say they are good at sight reading. It invariably means they are dodging the work of truly committing a piece to memory. Make sure you're not busking through pieces. Get a pencil out and graft!!!)

I'm not sure what you mean. Dodging the work of truly committing a piece to memory? I mean my sightreading is decent (could be better, but it seems to be better than most people my age), but I have no problems memorizing pieces. And I think memorization is the absolute minimum when committing to a piece. If you want to perform, or at least play well, you can't still be stuck reading notes.

[cranston53]

Hi Werq34ac,

I think my phrase 'committing a piece to memory' was misplaced.

In my experience (and that's all it is, so happy to be corrected), facility at sight reading can get you quite far at the piano - up to around say grade 6 or 7, but it frequently breeds a poor approach to practice and students can end up playing a piece, without ever really knowing it. Hence the word 'busking'. A student can memorise most of the piece and then when it gets to a tricky bit think 'uh oh!' and rely on his or her ability to read off the page.

That will only get you so far, and it won't get you past Rachmaninoff. That's when you need the pencil to work out exactly what is happening with each phrase, each chord progression, melodic lines etcetc. All the difficult stuff.

(I've just read this back and it's made me sound like a complete twerp. Honestly, it was only a throw away, light-hearted tip at the end. I didn't intend to sound like a piano bore.)

[slobone]

I know exactly what you mean about sight reading, it was a real problem for me in my younger years. My sight reading skills fooled several of my teachers into thinking I was some sort of child prodigy, since that was always the hardest part for their other students. But in reality, I never really got much beyond the sight reading stage with most of my pieces.

But at this point in my life I've learned to separate the pieces that I only sightread from those I plan to really commit too. That's why I have to be careful which pieces I pick. I spent a lot of time on Schumann's In Der Nacht before finally realizing that I was never going to play it as fast as it needs to be played. So that's why I asked for Rach recommendations before I waste a lot of time on something that's hopeless.

So far I think the ones I mentioned plus the Etude Tableau #2 look the most promising, but I will definitely look over the other ones mentioned here.

[werq34ac]

THE ELEGIE. OH MY GOD PLAY THE ELEGIE.

[costicina]

...or Prelude op 32 n 12, as suggested, or the Etude op 33 n 8 (7, it depends on the edition) in G minor. They have been  the first (and only so far) Rachmaninov pieces I've learned: beautiful, very rewarding, not easy but manageable..
Good luck, let's know what you decided to choose at last!   

[fftransform]

Some of the pieces from Op. 10, Op. 16 and Op. 21 are not too tough.

Another comparatively easy one:

The Elegie is not easy, nor are Op. 32 Nos. 5/10/12.  If it says "etude," then it's also probably not going to be easy.  The only one that might be doable is 39/2:

[pytheamateur]

As for finding a helpful edition of his preludes, you can try the Alfred Masterworks edition.  This is the only edition I know of with detailed editorial comments for each prelude together with fingering and pedalling suggestions.

I think Op23 No 4 is deceptively simple.  It might be slow but the voicing of different voices and cantabile playing could be quite challenging for some.  That's why is on the LRSM syllabus, i.e., the work of a conservatoire student for his graduation recital.

[sphince]

Why don't you try rach's polichinelle op.3 no.4
I think it's perfect and that it represents rach in every single way and it is not that hard.
besides rach's preludes are kind of overplayed im not saying in a bad way but if you are to
play on a concert you're going to be original.

[duels_davis]

I've played Rachmaninoff's Polichinelle and it's a bit of a bore.  (At least it is the way I play it. lol)   A few suggested his Prelude Op. 23, No. 10 and those are good suggestions.  Beautiful, charming, not difficult.  Ditto on his Op. 23, No. 4, Op 32 Preludes Nos. 5 and 11.

[tb230]

Opus 10 has already been mentioned: I would recommend no. 1, nocturne in a minor. I think it's got a very distinct 'Rachmaninoff' sound and it's not too difficult:

(PS: my former (Russian) piano teacher thought that the middle section of this piece should be interpreted as the church bells of Semyonovo, Rachmaninoff's place of birth....a nice story )

[slobone]

Hi guys, thanks for your suggestions. I started with the Etudes Tableaux op 39 #2. It seems to be just within my technical range and I really love it, very enigmatic and lots of room for interpretation. After that I'm going to do Prelude Op 23 #4 which is so lush and gorgeous, clearly Rach's homage to the Chopin Nocturnes. It looks like it won't be too difficult once I learn the notes.

[cadenza14224]

I'm a huge proponent of the Op. 23 No 4 prelude. It was the first rach piece that I ever learned, and similarly in your case, without the assistance of a teacher. The only technical facilities you need to be concerned about in that piece is handling polyrhythm throughout and some really awkward spacing/fingering. Musciality is another story. If the easier Musical Moment (i believe no 3...the one with the on-going triplets) is too simple for you, I truly believe this is the best way to start and get a great grasp of his musical literature. And might I add, It is an EXTREMELY rewarding  piece and is worth all the time you can manage to learn it!

[slobone]

I don't have Rach's Moments Musicaux, thanks for the suggestion. I'll add them to my cart.

[thesuineg]

Trust me the elegie is not hard.
It looks hard, but play it slow.
Beautiful piece really.
People rarely understand it. give it a try at least

[nanabush]

All of his music is demanding... The elegie has HUGE left hand passagework, and some finicky double note passages.

His slow etude tableaux also have turbulent passage (The g minor one has the cadenza, the cm from Op 33 has several intense moments, as does the Op 39 #2)

That being said, the G minor etude tableaux is a VERY accessible piece from his rep.  I'd equate it to the Liebestraum by Liszt... not his absolute easiest work, but it's at the entry level to his stuff, and it's got some big 'Liszty' moments... the G minor etude does the same in the style of Rach.

Don't judge them by fast/slow.  The D major prelude is a voicing nightmare and requires again massive chord leaps, and inner finger voicing throughout.  You should look at any of his Etude Tableaux from Op 33 (probably all except the Eb minor and the C# minor), to see what type of fingerwork you'll run into, get a feel for his chordal textures, and just generally his writing style.  Play maybe an etude that you 'like' (not that you think will be the least work), and a prelude, and maybe the 'Melodie' or 'Prelude' from Op. 3 and then you'll take off from there.

Please, no one suggest anything from Op 39.  If he is already having trouble finding the easy/hard parts from the preludes, he'll have a field day with that set of etudes.

[natalyaturetskii]

Mélodie from Morceaux de fantasie, Op.3 No.3. This piece is really nice, but he revised it later on, so you might want to have a look and decide whether you prefer the original or the revision - you might like both!

From
Natalya

[stoudemirestat]

Why don't you look at playing the entire Morceaux de fantaisie? All of the pieces are beautiful and rewarding, and it would be a great, broad introduction to Rachmaninoff. None of the pieces are too difficult (none of them are far above what you've claimed your level to be), although they will probably be a (good!) challenge for you in many ways.

[thesuineg]

Ehh well i played the elegie when i was 11 or so....I probably understood it really well back then compared to now, but yah maybe i didn't play it technically well now that i think about it. Anyways listen to his stuff, if you really like one, just try to learn it

[49410enrique]

what about thinking outside the normal pieces and playing one of his arrangemetns/transcriptions?

https://youtu.be/IaYdudg3TAM

With a few exceptions, Rachmaninov was generally quite faithful to the source music of his transcriptions. In this Bach effort, however, he added contrapuntal parts and harmonies because the original was written for solo violin. Yet the music has a mostly Bachian flavor and some have surmised that Bach himself would have made very similar modifications had he fashioned a keyboard version. That said, there are more than a few snippets of Rachmaninov's voice in this effort, especially in the opening prelude where there are echoes in the contrapuntal writing of some of the Etudes-Tableaux and the first movement of a work to come in 1940, the Symphonic Dances. The prelude is lively and light, busy with typical joyous Bachian contrapuntal activity. The ensuing Gavotte is even lighter and playful—gracefully dainty, actually—just the kind of music not expected for Rachmaninov to have a hand in. The closing Gigue is also light, but Rachmaninov gives it a little muscle in his bass harmonies. He also makes it quite a colorful affair, all of its nearly two minutes brimming with an infectious joy. The three pieces together have a duration of about eight or nine minutes.

[slobone]

All of his music is demanding... The elegie has HUGE left hand passagework, and some finicky double note passages.

His slow etude tableaux also have turbulent passage (The g minor one has the cadenza, the cm from Op 33 has several intense moments, as does the Op 39 #2)

That being said, the G minor etude tableaux is a VERY accessible piece from his rep.  I'd equate it to the Liebestraum by Liszt... not his absolute easiest work, but it's at the entry level to his stuff, and it's got some big 'Liszty' moments... the G minor etude does the same in the style of Rach.

Don't judge them by fast/slow.  The D major prelude is a voicing nightmare and requires again massive chord leaps, and inner finger voicing throughout.  You should look at any of his Etude Tableaux from Op 33 (probably all except the Eb minor and the C# minor), to see what type of fingerwork you'll run into, get a feel for his chordal textures, and just generally his writing style.  Play maybe an etude that you 'like' (not that you think will be the least work), and a prelude, and maybe the 'Melodie' or 'Prelude' from Op. 3 and then you'll take off from there.

Please, no one suggest anything from Op 39.  If he is already having trouble finding the easy/hard parts from the preludes, he'll have a field day with that set of etudes.

Thanks, I appreciate the advice. Don't completely agree however. I'm currently working on the D major prelude, and I really love it. Not only is it a beautiful piece, but Rach seems to have specifically laid out the notes for people who weren't as virtuosic as he was (and had smaller hands). The chord jumps are very manageable once you work out the fingering. You're right that the voicing is the biggest challenge, but I wouldn't call it a nightmare. The hardest part is the second page, where the melody is in the middle voice. But you have to learn to do that kind of thing with any Romantic music.

As for the Op 39 #2, I started that, and I'll go back to it pretty soon. You're right that the turbulent passages are the hard part, but I think they're just within my reach.

My philosophy of piano playing is that it's essential to learn the notes perfectly, so that you never have to hesitate for a nanosecond wondering what note comes next (or what finger you're going to play it with). I guess that's kind of obvious. But some of these pieces that seem hard when you first read them become a lot easier once you get to that point. Of course, it's essential that you really love a piece if you're going to practice it hundreds of times. And Rach, like Chopin, could be surprisingly accommodating to the amateur pianist.

Thanks for the suggestion of the g minor etude too, I'm looking at that one now.

[asuhayda]

His Preldue in g# minor is pretty and not too difficult.  Same goes for his prelude in c minor (op. 23 no. 7).  Also, D op 23. No. 4

All good choices.

I find that getting Rachmaninoff's music to sound the way I want it is more challenging than the actual technique (although that is very difficult as well). 

I find myself "over-pedalling" his music a lot. 

[carel71]

The first work that comes to my mind is his Italian Polka. Note that there are defferent versions, but you should be able to play the less complicated one. I'd say less complicated instead of easy, because imho there are no really easy Rachmaninov works.

So.... I'd take the Italian Polka if I were you!!! Also because it's a piece that people really like to hear...

And I personally rarely use pedal when I play Rachmaninov.

Good luck!!!! Rach is king!!!

[gracefulpianist14]

I would suggest his Serenade op. 3 no. 5 in b-flat minor. VERY rarely played, but has really interesting qualities, and it's about your level. I studied the Serenade last semester, now I REALLY want to study Prelude in C# minor and Elegie, but I think they're a bit beyond me right now...