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What the heck is this even possible?! Why even try?! (Sorry accidentally repost (Read 3801 times)

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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My piano teacher keeps telling me stories of these impossible feats by pianists such as a 12 year old kid playing Rach 3?!  A guy playing Rach 1 after he heard it SIX MONTHS AGO?!  A guy being able to sightread Rach 3 at full speed?!  A guy being able to rattle off every single note when someone puts their whole arm on the piano?!  Somebody learning Rach 2 in four hours?!

This is crazy!  Why even bother trying to be a professional pianist if that's what you're up against?!  I've seen a 14 year old play Petrouchka, Chopin Sonata 3, and Gaspard de la Nuit pretty well at age 14 so I know my piano teacher probably isn't making it up.

So for those of you people who aspire to have a career in playing piano, why even try?  Because you're competing against super humans!

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Offline quantum

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Music does not solely revolve around the seemingly mysterious world of superhuman abilities.  It can make you super rich if you can.  Ask yourself: why did you get into music?  Why are you still playing today?  Were you in search of the spectacle or was there something else about music that kept you coming back for more? 


Take the university practice room scenario.  There are those who try to out play, out speed and out bang the neighbor in the adjacent studio.  Such person hears Rach 2, and attempts drown out the "competition" by playing Rach 3 louder and faster.   To what end does this accomplish?  Likely the person in the other studio is unknown, and all that is present is the sound leaking through the walls.  Is such activity productive?  Would you gain anything from it?  Is your music any better because of it? 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline chauncey

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Re: What the heck is this even possible?! Why even try?!
«Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 02:34:45 AM »
Well for one reason, it's not like you're going to meet those type of people day to day. And quite frankly, I don't care that much. Of course I would love a challenge here and there but music is my passion. I play because I want to, because I LOVE to. And just because some little 5 year old or 15 year old is better than me I'm not going to stop playing.. hell.. I'll be a bit more motivated to play. At least I would have someone to look up to. :)

Point is, there will always be someone better than you in life, no matter who you are. Even if were Vladimir Horowitz, or even Evgeny Kissin.. Just do the best you can do.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Ask yourself: why did you get into music?  Why are you still playing today?  Were you in search of the spectacle or was there something else about music that kept you coming back for more? 


I guess I should have been a tad bit more specific.  Why even try when it's gonna be super hard to get a job because of these super humans?

But your response answers that question too...
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: What the heck is this even possible?! Why even try?!
«Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 02:58:26 AM »
Well for one reason, it's not like you're going to meet those type of people day to day. And quite frankly, I don't care that much. Of course I would love a challenge here and there but music is my passion. I play because I want to, because I LOVE to. And just because some little 5 year old or 15 year old is better than me I'm not going to stop playing.. hell.. I'll be a bit more motivated to play. At least I would have someone to look up to. :)

Point is, there will always be someone better than you in life, no matter who you are. Even if were Vladimir Horowitz, or even Evgeny Kissin.. Just do the best you can do.

Well I guess I should have been a tad bit more specific.  Why try to major in music when you can't make a living because these super humans take all of the jobs!  It's super competitive out there!
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Offline philb

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Re: What the heck is this even possible?! Why even try?!
«Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 03:05:48 AM »
It is extremely competitive, but if you are really determined I would say it is very possible. There was an article that Mayla posted a while back, It was an interesting read about child prodigies and so on.


"A few of you may remember a child prodigy of some twenty years ago, a Greek pianist named Dmitri Sgouros.  He made a sensation performing on the "Tonight Show" and playing the Third Piano Concerto of Rachmaninov at age ten or eleven.  My wife knew one of his teachers in America and was privy to the following anecdote:  At age eleven, Sgouros played through the Brahms Piano Sonata in F Minor, a five-movement beast to play, at sight.  He then played through it a second time and pronounced the piece memorized and ready for performance.  Wow!  Gee!  Gasp!  Why, he's another Franz Liszt!

It's now 2012 and Dmitri Sgouros is a musician in his thirties.  Is he the greatest living pianist?  Does he perform to sold-out houses in New York, Chicago and L.A.?  Will he go down in history?  And was his performance of the Brahms F Minor Sonata a performance for the ages?

No, no, no and no.  He's got a website; plays in Greece and so forth--that's nice, I suppose.  See, the reality is that for every Yehudi Menuhin (prodigy who became an all-time great artist), there are one hundred Dmitri Sgouros's whose bright flame dims with age.  (I know that statistic is accurate because I just made it up.)..."


Offline williampiano

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Re: What the heck is this even possible?! Why even try?!
«Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 03:33:44 AM »
This is crazy!  Why even bother trying to be a professional pianist if that's what you're up against?!  I've seen a 14 year old play Petrouchka, Chopin Sonata 3, and Gaspard de la Nuit pretty well at age 14 so I know my piano teacher probably isn't making it up.
Yeah, I've seen kids like that and it makes me wonder. How much time must they spend playing each day to play such difficult pieces? It's seems with school and all, that would take up the entire day. Don't they do anything else?

Offline quantum

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There is a difference between being super rich and having a job that allows a decent living.  You don't have to live the life of a super virtuoso in order to make a living with music.  

Why even try when it's gonna be super hard to get a job because of these super humans?

Why not?


Look at it from another perspective.  Have you ever played for a person that reacts: OMG how do you move those fingers so fast  :o .... you even play without sheets!  Must have taken you years to learn that.  From your perspective: it's just Fur Elise, not Rach 3. 

To someone without the knowledge and skill of how to do it, actions can be perceived as being beyond comprehension. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline ajspiano

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Why even try when it's gonna be super hard to get a job because of these super humans?

This is plainly not the case - not to say the life of a non super-human pianist is easy, but assuming you are a reasonable pianist..

The combination of  teaching/accompanying/small gigs (weddings, hotels lobby etc.) isn't that hard to make a living off if you are capable of getting things done without someone to hold your hand.

Famous well known concert hall performer isn't the only position that needs to be filled.

And to provide some further perspective - One noted teacher I contacted recently charges $175/lesson for a skype session, and she is not a super human. - at that rate she only has to work a 12 hour week to make a 6 figure income, and that beats working 9-5 for 60k.

Offline lucasmack

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Apologies for bumping up an old thread, but I was quite fascinated to read the post of "philb" with a quote comparing Dimitris Sgouros to Yehudi Menuhin, both famous prodigies in their day.  Menuhin certainly had a well-deserved reputation as a writer, thinker, educator, and all-round musician, but his instrumental technique arguably declined after his youth, yet this somehow didn't affect his globetrotting career as a soloist. . . (!) 
On the other hand, I haven't noticed a comparable decline in Sgouros' playing.  There is a recording of his Prokofieff Concerto 3 from Rome in 2013 with the Budapest Festival Orchestra / Iván Fischer - I had gotten this originally from an avid fan of Sgouros and it's still available at this link -> https://1fichier.com/?o5h0g46jj8

He appears to be in superb pianistic form on this occasion, so do check it out.  And according to his website, he will be on tour again with this same orchestra over the coming season, for anyone wishing a first-hand encounter :

  • GREECE - ATHENS: 15/11/15 ATHENS MEGARON CONCERT HALL (Christos Lambrakis Hall) - BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1
  • TURKEY - ISTANBUL: 18/11/15 CEMAL RESIT REY CONCERT HALL - BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1
  • THE NETHERLANDS - EINDHOVEN: 7/12/15 MUZIEKGEBOUW - BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1
  • THE NETHERLANDS - ROTTERDAM: 9/12/15 DE DOELEN - BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1
  • HUNGARY - BUDAPEST: 5, 6 & 8/02/16 PALACE OF ARTS - BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1
  • CANARY ISLANDS, SPAIN - TENERIFE: 11/02/16 BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1
  • CANARY ISLANDS, SPAIN - LAS PALMAS DE GRAN CANARIA: 12/02/16 BUDAPEST FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA CONDUCTED BY IVAN FISCHER - BRAHMS PIANO CONCERTO NO. 1

And by the way, a terrific Rach 3 1st movement from 1997 Moscow is on youtube -->


And an in-depth TV documentary portrait from 2013 -->


Additional samples of Sgouros' playing may be heard at www.sgourosmp3.com and www.soundclick.com
Plus plenty of info and reviews for anyone wanting an update on where he is today
His official web presence is at www.sgouros-pianist.com

Offline schumaniac

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guy above only has 1 post...

Offline bronnestam

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This is like saying there is no use training short-distance running because you cannot come close to the best results of Usain Bolt. And why bother training football when you just cannot come up to the achievments of Messi or Ibrahimovic? Why become a singer if you haven't the talent of Celine Dion?

Etcetera. Sorry, but this is a typical loser's attitude. "Compare yourself with the best ones, and if you cannot beat them - give up." I bet there are +300 million pianists on this planet who are better than me, and still I don't let that stop me from playing, nor to take lessons or try to develop the best way _I_ can. I do this for my own pleasure; frankly I don't give a sh*t if so an infant can perform Rach 3 while standing on his head. And even if I wanted to make a living out of my piano playing, I am pretty sure I would do well if I worked hard enough.

 After all, there are recitals and performances everywhere; sure there are not enough "super humans" to cover all these occasions. And even IF you happen to get so famous and successful that you perform to kings and presidents and all kinds of famous celebrities, you may find that you enjoy it the most to play to ordinary people who chose to buy a ticket and make the troublesome and sometimes expensive journey to the venue - even though they were not invited, even though their primary goal was not to be "seen". 

Life is not a competition. Art is no competition. You do your thing and you do it the best you can. Never mind the others.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Bruh this was three years ago...
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Offline ianzilla

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Bruh this was three years ago...

im gonna have to call BS on sight reading rach 3 at full speed lmao.  If you really think about something like that, I don't know how you could believe that without actually seeing the person sight read it.  I mean just cause it came from a credible source doesn't mean everything he says is credible.  I would approach these "feats" with a lot of skepticism. 

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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the dude who did it is a famous pianist but I forgot his name.

Over the summer I was being coached on the Rach 2 by some dude who went to Juilliard and he sightread that sh*t full speed.

Then afterwards he sightread the last movement of the first sonata and the first movement of the second sonata just slightly under tempo.

These dudes are real swear to god.
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Offline timothy42b

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When you see these incredible feats, you realize two things (at least):

They're better than you.

What they're doing is humanly possible. 

That second thing can unlock your ability to do something you thought impossible.
Tim

Offline ted

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There is a much deeper reason not to be too concerned. Suppose a transfer of consciousness were possible. How do you know that you are not happier, getting more out of your music, than these people are out of theirs ?
"We're all bums when the wagon comes." - Waller

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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But for real though this was three years ago can we drop it
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Offline ianzilla

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the dude who did it is a famous pianist but I forgot his name.

Over the summer I was being coached on the Rach 2 by some dude who went to Juilliard and he sightread that sh*t full speed.

Then afterwards he sightread the last movement of the first sonata and the first movement of the second sonata just slightly under tempo.

These dudes are real swear to god.

how do you know he never worked on it ever before? truly sight reading something means never trying the score before. a good teacher often studies students pieces before teaching you know

Offline ianzilla

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the dude who did it is a famous pianist but I forgot his name.

Over the summer I was being coached on the Rach 2 by some dude who went to Juilliard and he sightread that sh*t full speed.

Then afterwards he sightread the last movement of the first sonata and the first movement of the second sonata just slightly under tempo.

These dudes are real swear to god.

if the "dude" that sight read rach 3 was famous why don't you easily google him and find it for me?  the concert pianist that Rachmaninoff wrote rach 3 for didn't even play it. The best pianists in the world practice hours and hours to play Rach 3.   I don't see how you can believe this statement -- its ridiculous.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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how do you know he never worked on it ever before? truly sight reading something means never trying the score before. a good teacher often studies students pieces before teaching you know

I know because he's learning the third and he told me that he should've learned the second before he started the third.

He's not even my formal teacher he's just a friend
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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if the "dude" that sight read rach 3 was famous why don't you easily google him and find it for me?  the concert pianist that Rachmaninoff wrote rach 3 for didn't even play it. The best pianists in the world practice hours and hours to play Rach 3.   I don't see how you can believe this statement -- its ridiculous.

That's not something you can google.  What would I search? "Who was the guy who sightread the rach 3?"

 believe this because I've seen this type of stuff with my own eyes.
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Offline ianzilla

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That's not something you can google.  What would I search? "Who was the guy who sightread the rach 3?"

 believe this because I've seen this type of stuff with my own eyes.

If I heard of a pianist who sight read rach 3, I would be amazed and remember at least something significant about him/her.   You have not seen this particular thing with your own eyes; you may have seen incredible feats but this particular one is ridiculous for you to say its true.

Offline ianzilla

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I know because he's learning the third and he told me that he should've learned the second before he started the third.

He's not even my formal teacher he's just a friend

"Learned" is a broad word. This still doesn't mean he didn't work on it before.  "Learned" could mean at a performance level, memorized, memorized with dynamics etc 

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Dimitri sgouros!  That's his name.

Anyways, Walter Geiseking wrote a book about how he would remember and practice pieces by just looking at the score.  I'm pretty sure it's not impossible.

According to him he would learn pieces on the train ride to the concert venue and perform it later that afternoon.  THAT I don't believe is legit because that's the only pianist I've heard of with that ability and he's the only one who says that HE can do it.

But I can guarantee you ANYTHING is sightreadable at full or almost full tempo
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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"Learned" is a broad word. This still doesn't mean he didn't work on it before.  "Learned" could mean at a performance level, memorized, memorized with dynamics etc 

Look dude I personally know him.  That's his first time or first couple times reading it. 

He played the rach 1st sonata without even hearing the piece before, I'm pretty sure he sight read the rach 2 with me
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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If I heard of a pianist who sight read rach 3, I would be amazed and remember at least something significant about him/her.   You have not seen this particular thing with your own eyes; you may have seen incredible feats but this particular one is ridiculous for you to say its true.

The third concerto isn't a long shot from his sonatas and second concerto. 

Since I've seen those sightread at near full tempo, I'm not that shocked to hear about a dude who sightread the third.
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Offline ianzilla

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Dimitri sgouros!  That's his name.

Anyways, Walter Geiseking wrote a book about how he would remember and practice pieces by just looking at the score.  I'm pretty sure it's not impossible.

According to him he would learn pieces on the train ride to the concert venue and perform it later that afternoon.  THAT I don't believe is legit because that's the only pianist I've heard of with that ability and he's the only one who says that HE can do it.

But I can guarantee you ANYTHING is sightreadable at full or almost full tempo

LOL did you not read the above replies to your thread? they talked about sgouros.  Yes he is an out of this world pianist but nowhere in his own bio or anywhere else does it say he was able to "sight read" rach 3. it simply says he learned it at a very young age.  

Well I'm glad you don't believe other stuff like Geiseking or whatever it just bothers me when people believe whatever they hear without using logic, research, or proof-- whether it be from a credible source or not.  And sorry I don't believe that anything is sight readable at full or almost full tempo -- at least not at a performance level

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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LOL did you not read the above replies to your thread? they talked about sgouros.  Yes he is an out of this world pianist but nowhere in his own bio or anywhere else does it say he was able to "sight read" rach 3. it simply says he learned it at a very young age.  

Well I'm glad you don't believe other stuff like Geiseking or whatever it just bothers me when people believe whatever they hear without using logic, research, or proof-- whether it be from a credible source or not.  And sorry I don't believe that anything is sight readable at full or almost full tempo -- at least not at a performance level

I don't remember what people are saying THREE YEARS AGO.

Just because it doesn't say it in his bio doesn't mean sh*t would you include what you're able to sightread in your bio?

I don't care if it bothers you that people believe whatever they hear without proof.  It's completely irrelevant in this conversation because you haven't come across anyone who thinks this way.  I saw a dude sight read the Rachmaninoff sonatas and the rach 2.  So that's my reason for KNOWING that sight reading the rach 3 is possible.  Because the two sonatas and the second concerto aren't too far off from the third.

I didn't say ANYTHING about performance level.  I said sight reading at full or near full tempo.  
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Offline ianzilla

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I don't remember what people are saying THREE YEARS AGO.

Just because it doesn't say it in his bio doesn't mean sh*t would you include what you're able to sightread in your bio?

I don't care if it bothers you that people believe whatever they hear without proof.  It's completely irrelevant in this conversation because you haven't come across anyone who thinks this way.  I saw a dude sight read the Rachmaninoff sonatas and the rach 2.  So that's my reason for KNOWING that sight reading the rach 3 is possible.  Because the two sonatas and the second concerto aren't too far off from the third.

I didn't say ANYTHING about performance level.  I said sight reading at full or near full tempo.  

Woah where is this burst of anger coming from? Just because its 3 years ago doesn't make this ridiculous statement you quoted any less ridiculous.  how are you not able to understand one's skepticism for someone saying they are able to sight read each 3?  Well okay he wouldn't include it in his bio, so the only place  you hear about it is your piano teacher and you just believe it easily. 

I'm just saying the reason why I am debating with you about this is that people shouldn't believe whatever they hear without at least some skepticism -- so it is relevant...  You don't even know if he worked on it in the past, so don't assume that truly sight reading the 3rd concerto was done by Sgouros. 

And sight reading at full tempo is already a huge step to playing that piece at a performance level.

Offline ianzilla

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I don't remember what people are saying THREE YEARS AGO.

Just because it doesn't say it in his bio doesn't mean sh*t would you include what you're able to sightread in your bio?

I don't care if it bothers you that people believe whatever they hear without proof.  It's completely irrelevant in this conversation because you haven't come across anyone who thinks this way.  I saw a dude sight read the Rachmaninoff sonatas and the rach 2.  So that's my reason for KNOWING that sight reading the rach 3 is possible.  Because the two sonatas and the second concerto aren't too far off from the third.

I didn't say ANYTHING about performance level.  I said sight reading at full or near full tempo. 

Also there is a post about Sgouros from just 3 days ago.  So you don't even read your own replies. 

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Woah where is this burst of anger coming from? Just because its 3 years ago doesn't make this ridiculous statement you quoted any less ridiculous.  how are you not able to understand one's skepticism for someone saying they are able to sight read each 3?  Well okay he wouldn't include it in his bio, so the only place  you hear about it is your piano teacher and you just believe it easily. 

I'm just saying the reason why I am debating with you about this is that people shouldn't believe whatever they hear without at least some skepticism -- so it is relevant...  You don't even know if he worked on it in the past, so don't assume that truly sight reading the 3rd concerto was done by Sgouros. 

And sight reading at full tempo is already a huge step to playing that piece at a performance level.

1.  I'm not mad that's just how I talk
2.  I believed it because I had good reason to.  Don't assume that I just believe everything that comes from everyone's mouths. What part of "I've seen stuff like this before' do you not understand?
3.  No it IS irrelevant because I DO have skepticism.  Just because I believe something that you don't believe doesn't automatically make me not skeptical.

If I've seen someone sightread a rach sonata they've never heard before, It's not too far fetched to believe that a probably better pianist sightread the rach 3. 

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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Also there is a post about Sgouros from just 3 days ago.  So you don't even read your own replies.  

just because you mention a pianist doesn't mean I'll remember what he did.

Whether or not I remembered the name right away is irrelevant
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Offline ianzilla

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1.  I'm not mad that's just how I talk
2.  I believed it because I had good reason to.  Don't assume that I just believe everything that comes from everyone's mouths. What part of "I've seen stuff like this before' do you not understand?
3.  No it IS irrelevant because I DO have skepticism.  Just because I believe something that you don't believe doesn't automatically make me not skeptical.

If I've seen someone sightread a rach sonata they've never heard before, It's not too far fetched to believe that a probably better pianist sightread the rach 3. 



If thats how you talk you should talk in a new way that implies you're not angry then. You've seen amazing things but this feat is ridiculous.  There is no "good reason" to believe that he sight read rach 3, you're just hearing this dramatization of a rumor and spreading it.  A 14 year old playing petrusha is not the same as someone sight reading rach 3. 

And it is relevant to our conversation because I was explaining why I am debating with you. 

You said it was from 3 years ago and it wasn't. which means you didn't read your own replies.  you are too stubborn to admit it

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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If thats how you talk you should talk in a new way that implies you're not angry then. You've seen amazing things but this feat is ridiculous.  There is no "good reason" to believe that he sight read rach 3, you're just hearing this dramatization of a rumor and spreading it.  A 14 year old playing petrusha is not the same as someone sight reading rach 3.  

And it is relevant to our conversation because I was explaining why I am debating with you.  

You said it was from 3 years ago and it wasn't. which means you didn't read your own replies.  you are too stubborn to admit it

I don't talk in way that implies I'm mad, I can talk to people just fine.  So I'm not gonna change the way I talk.  You can't tell the inflections of my voice via text so of course it's easy for anyone to get confused.

Bruh I've said this like 10 times.  If someone can sightread a rach sonata they've never heard before, then I'm pretty sure it's possible to sightread the rach 3.  I found good reason to believe it.  YOU haven't had the same experiences I've had so ofcourse course you won't have a good reason.

Then the reason why you're debating me is stupid.  I already said that I am skeptical of what I hear so that means that you should stop talking.

I don't care if it's from a day ago, if I don't remember the pianist, I don't remember the pianist.  Someone mentioning him might help me remember, but in this case I didn't anyways.  This dude wrote a long ass paper about some sh*t after I stopped worrying about this three years ago.  So of course I'm just gonna skim it or not read it at all.  Obviously I read my replies, if I didn't I wouldn't be talking to you now would I.
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Offline ianzilla

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I don't talk in way that implies I'm mad, I can talk to people just fine.  So I'm not gonna change the way I talk.  You can't tell the inflections of my voice via text so of course it's easy for anyone to get confused.

Bruh I've said this like 10 times.  If someone can sightread a rach sonata they've never heard before, then I'm pretty sure it's possible to sightread the rach 3.  

Then the reason why you're debating me is stupid.  I already said that I am skeptical of what I hear so that means that you should stop talking.

I on't care if it's from a day ago, if I don't remember the pianist, I don't remember the pianist.  Someone mentioning him might help me remember, but in this case I didn't anyways.  

Are you kidding me? read when you were capitalizing your words for emphasis and saying you don't care this and that.  It's common knowledge to assume you are angry when you write text like this. 

Look, you obviously are ignoring what I say and just keep repeating the same phrases over and over.  I just told you before that you don't even know if they worked on the sonata/concerto before even though he said he never "learned" it.

My point is you said it was 3 years ago that someone mentioned his name and someone mentioned it 3 days ago.  Therefore, you are wrong and you don't read your own replies.  I'm astounded at how you just keep repeating the same things over and over and never seem to really read my arguments.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Are you kidding me? read when you were capitalizing your words for emphasis and saying you don't care this and that.  It's common knowledge to assume you are angry when you write text like this.  

Look, you obviously are ignoring what I say and just keep repeating the same phrases over and over.  I just told you before that you don't even know if they worked on the sonata/concerto before even though he said he never "learned" it.

My point is you said it was 3 years ago that someone mentioned his name and someone mentioned it 3 days ago.  Therefore, you are wrong and you don't read your own replies.  I'm astounded at how you just keep repeating the same things over and over and never seem to really read my arguments.

1.  I use caps for emphasis.  If I was trying to sound mad I would USE ALL CAPS THE WHOLE TIME LIKE THIS.  When I say I don't care, it means I don't care.  Nothing more nothing less.  My honesty doesn't mean that I'm mad.
2.  No I have acknowledged everything you said and responded to everything.  YOU are the one who can't read.  I told you that he never even heard of the rach sonata before.  So I KNOW he actually sightread it.  I was talking to him the whole time about how amazing it was that he was able to sightread it and not once did he say that he's played some of it or looked at it before.  
3.  FALSE.  I read everyone else's replies but skimmed his cause his was like a book long and it's been three years since someone commented on this.  You're just being stupid now.  If I'm replying to you then obviously I'm reading my replies.  Even if I didn't read it, it's completely irrelevant to the pointless reason of why you're trying to argue with me.  You're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.  I'm actually not astounded that you'll probably ignore this sentence and everything I said in no. 2
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Offline ianzilla

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1.  I use caps for emphasis.  If I was trying to sound mad I would USE ALL CAPS THE WHOLE TIME LIKE THIS.  When I say I don't care, it means I don't care.  Nothing more nothing less.  My honesty doesn't mean that I'm mad.
2.  No I have acknowledged everything you said and responded to everything.  YOU are the one who can't read.  I told you that he never even heard of the rach sonata before.  So I KNOW he actually sightread it.  I was talking to him the whole time about how amazing it was that he was able to sightread it and not once did he say that he's played some of it or looked at it before.  
3.  FALSE.  I read everyone else's replies but skimmed his cause his was like a book long and it's been three years since someone commented on this.  You're just being stupid now.  If I'm replying to you then obviously I'm reading my replies.  Even if I didn't read it, it's completely irrelevant to the pointless reason of why you're trying to argue with me.  You're just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.  I'm actually not astounded that you'll probably ignore this sentence and everything I said in no. 2

1.  who cares if you use the caps lock for emphasis.  whether you were trying to or not, you sounded mad.  It may not mean youre actually mad but you implied you were mad.

2.  You have not acknowledged everything I said.  Look at you now just reversing it back at me saying I don't read what you say.  How could he have not heard of the rach sonata ? He didn't say he did, but he could've worked on it before. 

3.  LOL you're not reading all your replies.  okay now you're just lying.  Well the internet is known for that after all.  I'm arguing at this fact because it proves you never admit you are wrong when you are wrong. you did not read everyone's replies, you didn't even know that sgouros was being discussed 3 years ago either.  And now you're calling me stupid for pointing out something that you're wrong about? 

Look, there is a reason you got owned 3 years ago previously by fellow piano street members for assuming there was no point in pursuing a career in piano because of prodigies.  What a simple minded way of thinking

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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1.  who cares if you use the caps lock for emphasis.  whether you were trying to or not, you sounded mad.  It may not mean youre actually mad but you implied you were mad.

2.  You have not acknowledged everything I said.  Look at you now just reversing it back at me saying I don't read what you say.  How could he have not heard of the rach sonata ? He didn't say he did, but he could've worked on it before.  

3.  LOL you're not reading all your replies.  okay now you're just lying.  Well the internet is known for that after all.  I'm arguing at this fact because it proves you never admit you are wrong when you are wrong. you did not read everyone's replies, you didn't even know that sgouros was being discussed 3 years ago either.  And now you're calling me stupid for pointing out something that you're wrong about?  

Look, there is a reason you got owned 3 years ago previously by fellow piano street members for assuming there was no point in pursuing a career in piano because of prodigies.  What a simple minded way of thinking

I'm not flipping it around.  You're actually not reading what I said.

What would a 60 year old accomplish by lying about not having heard a rach sonata.  The FIRST sonata isn't that famous of a piece.  Lots of people haven't heard it.

no I'm calling you stupid because you ARE stupid.  You started this whole thing just because you wanted to start some bullshit with someone online.  You go from "sight reading rach 3 is impossible" to "you don't read your replies".  Yes I did read everyone's replies.  Why would I remember random sh*t THREE YEARS AGO.  Sure maybe they did mention the dude, but I just didn't remember the name.  How in the world do you make the conclusion that I don't read replies from me not remembering someone's name previously mentioned in the thread.

Simple minded way of thinking?  I posted the thread in the first place to ask how do people deal with pursuing s professional career knowing that people like this exist.  I was pursuing the career anyways.  Besides people drop out of the career all the time for that reason.  My former teacher was a professional until he retired at 25 cause he couldn't keep up.  My class of music majors was cut in half largely for the same reason.  That's not a simple minded way of thinking, it's a realistic way of thinking.  And you're just dumb. Unlike you on the other hand, you just like to start sh*t up for no reason.

Seriously, although I like the general public pianostreet is littered with losers like you just trying to start sh*t about nothing.  Stop.  You said you were trying to achieve some goal or prove some point by trying to argue with me, but you didn't.  Not even close.  How old are you even?  12?
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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rachmaninoff_forever you can be forgiven to feel that that there are unique people out there can cold read (sight read on first go) everything, even JS Bach thought so until he was proven wrong when a friend of his handed a work Mr Bach himself could not read straight away. It is not a reality and if I met anyone who admitted they did it with Rach 3 I will laugh in their face. Your teacher is probably testing your mettle.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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rachmaninoff_forever you can be forgiven to feel that that there are unique people out there can cold read (sight read on first go) everything, even JS Bach thought so until he was proven wrong when a friend of his handed a work Mr Bach himself could not read straight away. It is not a reality and if I met anyone who admitted they did it with Rach 3 I will laugh in their face. Your teacher is probably testing your mettle.

I met a dude who could do it on the rach 2 and his first sonata .  So I don't think the third is a long shot.
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Offline dogperson

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IS THIS THE LAST POST WINS THREAD?   Both of you are better than this--- let it go   :)

Offline lostinidlewonder

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I met a dude who could do it on the rach 2 and his first sonata .  So I don't think the third is a long shot.
Sorry I dont believe him, he fooled you good. How do you know it was his first read? You just have to trust him right.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Sorry I dont believe him, he fooled you good. How do you know it was his first read? You just have to trust him right.

This is how the convo went...

Me: Yo have you heard the first sonata?

Him: I've Heard OF it but not it

I start reading some of the last movement but then I'm like

Me:  here you're a better sight reader than me

Him: okay

So he sightreads it at like 80% tempo

And I'm like Bruh this is ridiculous and he's like Naah Naah

1.  Why would he lie about it if he's a 60 year old successful pianist
2.  I didn't even ask him to sightread it in the first place so why would you lie about not knowing a piece in the first place. 

Afterwards I game him a bunch of random stuff (Prokofiev 5th concerto, Tchaikovsky transcriptions, Scriabin sonatas) and he could read EVERYTHING no problem.

Stone cold killer
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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He was also a ridiculous jazz improviser, an incredible not just sight reading pianist, and an Amazing singer.  The best musician I personally know.
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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This is how the convo went...

Me: Yo have you heard the first sonata?

Him: I've Heard OF it but not it

I start reading some of the last movement but then I'm like

Me:  here you're a better sight reader than me

Him: okay

So he sightreads it at like 80% tempo

And I'm like Bruh this is ridiculous and he's like Naah Naah

1.  Why would he lie about it if he's a 60 year old successful pianist
2.  I didn't even ask him to sightread it in the first place so why would you lie about not knowing a piece in the first place. 

Afterwards I game him a bunch of random stuff (Prokofiev 5th concerto, Tchaikovsky transcriptions, Scriabin sonatas) and he could read EVERYTHING no problem.

Stone cold killer

Cool story bro.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Offline outin

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The fact is that when it comes to people's abilities almost anything is possible. I have met several people with unbelievable cognitive abilities (high level sight reading is a presentation of cognitive ability as well as techical skill). So I have no problem believing that a rare individual can do something that everyone else finds impossible.

But no use trying to compare yourself with these people, because you cannot get THAT good simply by working on it, you need to have a certain kind of a brain that starts developing already in the womb. So it's better to find your own special skills and learn to use them for your advantage. If it makes you feel any better, there people also tend to have weaknesses as well...

Offline ianzilla

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I'm not flipping it around.  You're actually not reading what I said.

What would a 60 year old accomplish by lying about not having heard a rach sonata.  The FIRST sonata isn't that famous of a piece.  Lots of people haven't heard it.

no I'm calling you stupid because you ARE stupid.  You started this whole thing just because you wanted to start some bullshit with someone online.  You go from "sight reading rach 3 is impossible" to "you don't read your replies".  Yes I did read everyone's replies.  Why would I remember random sh*t THREE YEARS AGO.  Sure maybe they did mention the dude, but I just didn't remember the name.  How in the world do you make the conclusion that I don't read replies from me not remembering someone's name previously mentioned in the thread.

Simple minded way of thinking?  I posted the thread in the first place to ask how do people deal with pursuing s professional career knowing that people like this exist.  I was pursuing the career anyways.  Besides people drop out of the career all the time for that reason.  My former teacher was a professional until he retired at 25 cause he couldn't keep up.  My class of music majors was cut in half largely for the same reason.  That's not a simple minded way of thinking, it's a realistic way of thinking.  And you're just dumb. Unlike you on the other hand, you just like to start sh*t up for no reason.

Seriously, although I like the general public pianostreet is littered with losers like you just trying to start sh*t about nothing.  Stop.  You said you were trying to achieve some goal or prove some point by trying to argue with me, but you didn't.  Not even close.  How old are you even?  12?

one of Rach's most large scale works and he only wrote 2 sonatas.  A 60 year old successful classical pianist that teaches classical students for years and you are the first one to show him the first each sonata?  sure.

Sight reading rach 3 is probably impossible, I asked you to back up your claim. And you have no proof that Sgouros sight read it.  And he didn't, obviously.  Not one source anywhere says anything about it.   You didn't even research about it or anything, hell you barely remembered his name.  No source says anything about anyone sight reading it.  The only person that believes it with you is your old man piano teacher. 

You did not read everyone's replies, you just said that Sgouros was mentioned 3 years ago, but he was mentioned a few days ago.  You just said he was a famous pianist of course you would remember his name.  Therefore you are a liar and you lose more of the little credibility you have left on piano street. 

The way you started the topic discouraged other members from continuing piano.  You're the one who said "why even try, you are going up against super humans."  You basically got owned by more intelligent piano street members in the process and then dropped the subject.

calling me dumb or stupid isn't really doing anything except to expose your immaturity and lose your credibility.  When people read your replies on this thread, they see that all you do is get angry and claim to not get angry, call people stupid, and try to back up claims that you've heard without any proof

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Someone with the ability to cold read Rach 3 would have recorded like thousands and thousands and thousands of pieces and would be world famous without even trying. Their playing experience base would have to be so broad and far reaching that to even consider that famous pieces from Rach have never come under their inspection is simply unbelievable. I admit there are amazing readers out there, I have personally studied and met a few of them, but none of them admitted that being able to cold read difficult works at tempo should be an aim for sight reading skills, not a single one of them.
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