Intro chords in Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No.2

[montygolfear]

Hi,
I have been listening to many recordings and performances o of Rachmaninoff's piano concerto no.2. I have noticed how difficult the opening chords are to play if the hands are on the small side. There seems to be various ways to play these.
What I find interesting is that some pianists play them without rolling them , or breaking them.
Is it npossible that some actually cheat by missing certain notes out of the chords to achieve this?

MG

[pts1]

If you can reach a 10th and barely play it, then you can play the left hand chords.
By emphasizing the low note and playing the inner notes with the least emphasis on the top of the 10th, it will work. The right hand only spans an octave as I recall.

I think rolling it really weakens the impact. If I just couldn't make the span period, then I'd
play the bass note then very quickly play the rest of the left hand chord as a solid group i.e. not rolled.

Ironically, leaving notes out of the left hand makes it harder, IMO, since then there is less for the hand to "hold on to". For instance, the first LH chord is F, C, and A flat (the 10th).

If you leave out the C played with the 2nd finger (making a 5th with the low F) then the hand has to span the entire distance with no "bridging" assistance. So the trick is to place your hand on the keys in a stretched position, then as you push down with your wrist and arms, your fingers will actually splay outward helping to reach the entire chord.

I have an average hand, and this is the method I use i.e. the splaying thing, which can only be done slowly, but then you have plenty of time to form these positions. Try it and see if it doesn't help.

[montygolfear]

Thanks pts1.

I will give it a go. I never leave any notes out . It's just the awkward inner notes I find awkward on the second chord , especially playing the Dflat with the c on the top of the right hand chord.

Cheers,

MG

[pytheamateur]

Is it npossible that some actually cheat by missing certain notes out of the chords to achieve this?

MG

Certainly.  Peter Donohoe talked about this issue in a radio interview.  Not sure if he does that himself but some pianists certainly "cheat".  Peter Donohoe did not reveal which notes are missed, considering it some sort of trade secret.

[montygolfear]

Certainly.  Peter Donohoe talked about this issue in a radio interview.  Not sure if he does that himself but some pianists certainly "cheat".  Peter Donohoe did not reveal which notes are missed, considering it some sort of trade secret...........

That is really interesting. I thought I had heard somewhere that some pianists miss certain notes out.
I have recently watched on YouTube A video of Arcady volados , with very close camera work on his hands and the ability to pause at the correct moment, I am convinced that he misses the top C in the right hand to enable him to play the chords straight.
Of course I could be completely wrong!.

I wish I could hear that radio broadcast it would be very interesting to me.

Cheers

MG

[montygolfear]

Have just found tHis snippet in The Independqnt Newspaper reviewing the Radio Broadcast.......


But the opening right-hand chords of that concerto over the tolling bass are the product of more than gloom. The rangy Rachmaninov, written off by Stravinsky as "a six-and-a-half-foot scowl", was probably suffering from Marfan syndrome, the condition that leads to exceptionally long limbs and elasticity. He wrote extraordinarily broad chords, possibly because he had lost confidence in composing for posterity – and thus for those with smaller hands. The concert pianist Peter Donohoe admits that by bar four of the concerto he has to leave out some of the notes.

MG

[pytheamateur]

I have recently watched on YouTube A video of Arcady volados , with very close camera work on his hands and the ability to pause at the correct moment, I am convinced that he misses the top C in the right hand to enable him to play the chords straight.
Of course I could be completely wrong!.

I wish I could hear that radio broadcast it would be very interesting to me.

Cheers

MG

That's interesting.  I can reach the right hand chords fine; it's the left hand I have trouble with.

[pts1]

It's just the awkward inner notes I find awkward on the second chord , especially playing the Dflat with the c on the top of the right hand chord.

I agree 100%. This second chord is the most awkward of the bunch, but so important (the Dflat) since it offers the all-important dissonance and is part of that little inner-voice chromatic melodic line.

I find it very uncomfortable to play!

[pianowolfi]

[montygolfear]

I agree 100%. This second chord is the most awkward of the bunch, but so important (the Dflat) since it offers the all-important dissonance and is part of that little inner-voice chromatic melodic line.

I find it very uncomfortable to play!

Exactly!....both my hands cannot twist to accommodate that second chord. The Dflat is the real difficulty.
Surely some pianists leave notes out .....perhaps it IS a trade secret!

[cjp_piano]

That is really interesting. I thought I had heard somewhere that some pianists miss certain notes out.
I have recently watched on YouTube A video of Arcady volados , with very close camera work on his hands and the ability to pause at the correct moment, I am convinced that he misses the top C in the right hand to enable him to play the chords straight.

I doubt he left out the top voice

[cjp_piano]

I have heard and seen several convincing performances using a variety of alterations. Some roll it, some play the low bass note sort of as a grace note and the rest of the chord immediately after. Hardly anyone but Rachmaninoff himself (with his almost 2 octave span) could reach and play all the notes simultaneously with power.

[akthe47]

These chords are pianissimo, with a gradual crescendo.  You can get away with stuff on the first few chords.

[j_menz]

I roll (like mad) as quickly as possible. I can actually manage the chords apart from the one with the Db. You can't really leave antthing out, as the colour of the chords is the important thing developing here. And that bloody Db comes back at the end of the crescendo, so no hiding that on.  I find if I only roll that chord, it stands out more than if I roll all of them. The trick is to do them fast enough. 

I can't imagine tha sized hand you'd need to reach nearly a tenth 2-5.

[montygolfear]

I roll (like mad) as quickly as possible. I can actually manage the chords apart from the one with the Db. You can't really leave antthing out, as the colour of the chords is the important thing developing here. And that bloody Db comes back at the end of the crescendo, so no hiding that on.  I find if I only roll that chord, it stands out more than if I roll all of them. The trick is to do them fast enough. 

I can't imagine tha sized hand you'd need to reach nearly a tenth 2-5.

It's that Db that is the killer for me too. I don't like playing the Db and the C with the thumb as it isn't clear enough when I do it ........
Bloody Db !