Do top flight pianists ever Cheat ?

[montygolfear]

Following my previous post on this site regarding the opening chords of Rachmaninov's 2nd Piano Concerto and how to get araound playing them if you have relatively small hands.

 I would like to know if anyone out there has heard of any trade secrets regarding notoriously difficult peices and how top flight pianists have perhaps cheated , or know of accepted manipulations of the said music.

[werq34ac]

No self-respecting pianist would ever omit notes of the opening of Rach 2. That I know for sure.


Most people tend to play the base F and then the 3 top notes of the left hand.

And that's how it's done. How much space is between the F and the chord is up to you. It could be as much as how Rachmaninoff does it (which is interesting that he does, seeing that he could most certainly reach those chords) or as minimally as possible (don't have an example of anyone who does it minimally.)


Ashkenazy is also interesting, in that he is still able to evoke bells despite actually rolling the left hand.

[ajspiano]

In the krystian zimmerman interview that's floating around he talks about a cortot recording of I think the chopin preludes - where the recording was digitally remastered and they discovered that cortot was not playing a great many of the notes..

Zimmerman proposed though that cortot was not cheating, rather adapting to the acoustics of the room which had an excessive amount of resonance.

[j_menz]

In recordings, pianists sometimes do stop start recordings, allowing them to do difficult passages more quickly etc than they could ever maintain in a  live performance. (also they can edit out errors by re-recording just that bit, but not sure that counts as cheating these days as it's so common).

Not sure how disappointing their live concerts are for fans expecting the same pyrotechnics as the recordings.

[werq34ac]

In recordings, pianists sometimes do stop start recordings, allowing them to do difficult passages more quickly etc than they could ever maintain in a  live performance. (also they can edit out errors by re-recording just that bit, but not sure that counts as cheating these days as it's so common).

Not sure how disappointing their live concerts are for fans expecting the same pyrotechnics as the recordings.

Actually, I find recordings of live performances more exciting (pyrotechnics) than in a recording studio. Not quite sure what it is.

[johnmar78]

talking about Ashkanzy, I actually met him personally in Sydney. That his hands is no bigger than mine, but a slight thicker fingers. Rolling is the only way that you do it naturally.

[montygolfear]

In recordings, pianists sometimes do stop start recordings, allowing them to do difficult passages more quickly etc than they could ever maintain in a  live performance. (also they can edit out errors by re-recording just that bit, but not sure that counts as cheating these days as it's so common).

Not sure how disappointing their live concerts are for fans expecting the same pyrotechnics as the recordings.

Talking of STOP , START in the recording studio. I remember a recording of Rachmaninovs Piano Concerto no.3 in the late 70's (I think) on EMI Classics for Pleasure label by Craig Sheppard, LPO, and John Pritchard conducting.It was so dis-jointed by all the audible edits that it destroyed the music IMO.
I think John Pritchard had a reputation for under rehearsing , perhaps it could have been attributable to that? Or perhaps the pianist was not up to the piece perhaps?. It soon disappeared from the catalogue. I have never seen it reissued since .

[nearenough]

If by cheating is mean not playing all the notes, or all the notes not exacly as written, yes, some cheat. I recently watch a You Tube video of Horowitz playing Rach 3 and in the 1st mvmt cadenza he simply leaves out 3 right hand chords the omission of which make little difference. My piano teacher, the late Leon Tumarkin had perfect pitch and told me VH made many omissions and tricks in his performance. But so what? Some sections may simply be unplayable to some performers which doesn't necessarily detract from their over-all artistry.
I watched a DVD of Pollini doing the Brahms second and in the first mvmt cadenza where there are tremendously fast left hand octave leaps, he simply left some of them out!
Neither Rubinstein nor Horowitz recorded all the Chopin etudes simply because the technical problems of some of them are not worth the time and struggle for an incommensurate result.
In passing watch the YT video of Kissin racing through the Etudes op 10 #1,2 in succession. I could never do it in a million years of practicing. Some people's abilities are unaccountably superior to other's. (For example the golfer who can hit long perfect drives sitting in a chair, using the club backwards, from a ball tossed in the air, etc). So you blame your bad golf on your clubs? Of course you do.

[montygolfear]

If by cheating is mean not playing all the notes, or all the notes not exacly as written, yes, some cheat. I recently watch a You Tube video of Horowitz playing Rach 3 and in the 1st mvmt cadenza he simply leaves out 3 left hand chords the omission of which make little difference. My piano teacher, the late Leon Tumarkin had perfect pitch and told me VH made many omissions and tricks in his performance. But so what? Some sections may simply be unplayable to some performers which doesn't necessarily detract from their over-all artistry.
I watched a DVD of Pollini doing the Brahms second and in the first mvmt cadenza where there are tremendously fast left hand octave leaps, he simply left some of them out!
Neither Rubinstein nor Horowitz recorded all the Chopin etudes simply because the technical problems of some of them are not worth the time and struggle for an incommensurate result.
In passing watch the YT video of Kissin racing through the Etudes op 10 #1,2 in succession. I could never do it in a million years of practicing. Some people's abilities are unaccountably superior to other's. (For example the golfer who can hit long perfect drives sitting in a chair, using the club backwards, from a ball tossed in the air, etc). So you blame your bad golf on your clubs? Of course you do.

That is a fascinating post. It seems as artistic licence might be in use more than we think.
I have never considered that either Horowitz or Rubinstein would not have the facility to play any music.

Thanks

MG

[slane]

Barenboim just makes it up!
https://www.guardian.co.uk/music/tomserviceblog/2011/jun/15/is-pianistic-perfection-important

[pianoboy91]

That is a fascinating post. It seems as artistic licence might be in use more than we think.
I have never considered that either Horowitz or Rubinstein would not have the facility to play any music.

Thanks

MG

In the biography that David Dubal did of V. Horowitz he says that Horowitz would not play the Winter Wind Etude of Chopin because he could not sustain the amount of energy needed with his technique. This is not taking away from Horowitz at all, I personally love his style. But there are pieces that some pianists won't perform because they don't fit their style/technique.

A. M.