[VIDEO] Bach: Goldberg Variations (Aria)

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.

[birba]

For some reason the second video was disactivated, so I can't compare.
I'm really curious as to how you learned this piece.  You've evidently memorized it.  But there are more wrong notes then right ones - sorry, not THAT extreme, but it's filled with misreadings.  What was the edition you used?  And did you listen to any recordings?
You also play way too much with the tempo.  If I didn't know the piece, I would be at a complete loss as to what it's all about.
It's clear you love the music.  But it's like you're turning it all around to suit your personal taste.  I'm not one who likes "urtext" performances if technical perfection and strict style are the only guidelines.  On the other hand, you can't mold someone's music to suit your own particular whims.  I hope you aren't offended by this, but I really can't make head or tail of what you played.

[emill]

Hello,

Birba means well .... I can assure you ... my son has learned a good amount from him.

Some may not agree here but Gould's rerecording of this piece which you may want to listen to if you haven't yet -

&feature=related - is just breathtaking .... starts after the monologue at 6:30. Personally, if my son is learning this, I will play it softly evry evening  while he sleeps so that his subconscious will be immersed in it....       THANKS.

To Birba, regarding the video .... place the mouse pointer on the video clip's screen and just double click ... it will take you directly to YT and the video. 

[birba]

I listened to the second tape.  It's actually a little bit better.  I think with time you  are taking more and more liberties until it's almost unrecognizable.  Yes, please don't take what I'm saying personally.  I'm actually sort of fascinated by what you do.  It's very bizarre.  I've never heard anything like it.  But it's become so personal, that only you will be able to appreciate your performance.  Bach is no longer there. 

[ajspiano]

it's become so personal, that only you will be able to appreciate your performance.  Bach is no longer there. 

is that to say that OP is not a sufficient enough musician for anyone to be able to appreciate it? ..What would you're perspective have been had you not already had an idea of what the piece 'should' sound like?

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.

[birba]

Good, then I can reply without feeling I'm offending anyone!  
Interesting discussion.  It's true, I know the piece and I have a preconceived conception of what it should sound like.  It's true, it's MY conception.  However I like to think of myself as very open to different approaches to a classic.  All it has to do is convince me.  Like i said in my other post, I'm very fascinated by your  playing.  but I'm wondering what is behind it.  First of all, one thing I don't think you can change, is the tempo.  I know many play it very slow, many play it moderate, and a few play it "andante con moto".  (I'm one of those few, by the way)  But I'm not referring to the speed of the aria.  I'm talking about it's "andamento" - it's rythm, it's flow, it's movement.  There is none.  Listening to you, I can imagine what I would think if I didn't know the piece:  nice tone, strange harmonies (and by the way, your left hand is filled with misreadings - I'm not talking about imbellishments) sort of like an abstract painting.  Because there ARE colors and dynamics.  But I would imagine something sort of suspended in the air, floating around.  Like I say, nothing that Bach intended.  And you can talk about free interpretation until you're blue in the face, but no one is going to convince me that this is what Bach wanted.
Do you convince me?  Yes, strangely enough, you do in a certain way.  Because there are too many similarities in the two recordings that reveal you're not faking it.  You do feel it and YOU are convinced.  So I did enjoy it.  Like I said, very bizarre, but fascinating.
What's "OP"?

[costicina]

OP is "Original Poster"...very very intersting discussion 

[pianowolfi]

Well yes, there is a lot of feeling in it, and I like it, but though, you have to play the correct notes. You can't even start to talk about interpretation as long as you did not read the notes correctly. So read the text correctly and inform yourself about how the embellishments should be executed, and then repost, with all the feeling. Please. Thanks

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.

[cbreemer]

Pianowolfi is right on the ball here. Generally, but especially in Bach, all the notes must be right before you can begin the task of interpreting. An occasional slip is human of course, when the going gets rough, but that does not apply here. Misreadings should always be corrected. In such a perfect and vulnerable piece as this everything must be just right, and there is absolutely no excuse for not playing what Bach wrote. Sorry if that sounded pedantic But I have too much respect for Bach to condone tampering with his notes. Unless you make something completely new with it, but that is not the case here.

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.

[ajspiano]

I do not believe that altering the tempo, dynamics, rhythm, notes or anything else in any way disrespects the work of a composer. I doubt I will ever understand this fascination with upholding a work as written and only as written - its just not that important in the grand scheme of things, and collaborative writing is one of the most rewarding experiences for a musician. I see no reason not to arrange and adjust the work of a composer if that's what you wish to do.

In saying that, my thoughts demand a concious creative choice, not just whatever happens is good enough. I also still believe that there is much to be learned from, and beauty created by preparing an interpretation that represents a composers intention.

[andhow04]

I do not believe that altering the tempo, dynamics, rhythm, notes or anything else in any way disrespects the work of a composer. I doubt I will ever understand this fascination with upholding a work as written and only as written - its just not that important in the grand scheme of things, and collaborative writing is one of the most rewarding experiences for a musician. I see no reason not to arrange and adjust the work of a composer if that's what you wish to do.

In saying that, my thoughts demand a concious creative choice, not just whatever happens is good enough. I also still believe that there is much to be learned from, and beauty created by preparing an interpretation that represents a composers intention.

i think we shouldn't go too far and say that clear misreadings and un-intentional wrong notes are collaborative writing!  in my opinion, your attitude goes too far; but even if not, the fact is, how does it apply in this situation?  the aria bass line is the bass line for the whole set of variations.   fi you don't play the right notes int he bass line, you don't have the theme for the 30 variations.
so if you play a wrong note in the bass line, which let us all admit there are a few wrong notes in this recording, you better translate the same wrong note to every variation! otherwise your "collabortion" is pretty half-a$$ed!  don't you agree?

[birba]

I do not believe that altering the tempo, dynamics, rhythm, notes or anything else in any way disrespects the work of a composer. I doubt I will ever understand this fascination with upholding a work as written and only as written - its just not that important in the grand scheme of things, and collaborative writing is one of the most rewarding experiences for a musician. I see no reason not to arrange and adjust the work of a composer if that's what you wish to do.

In saying that, my thoughts demand a concious creative choice, not just whatever happens is good enough. I also still believe that there is much to be learned from, and beauty created by preparing an interpretation that represents a composers intention.

If this work had been presented as
J.S.Bach-Jacobrudduck  Aria from Goldberg Variations
I would have accepted it.  And even had fun with it.  But as it is, it is NOT Bach.   You can alter dynamics and tempi, but you cannot touch the notes and rythm if you want to present a composer's work.  At least as far as the pre-contemporary repertoire goes.

[ajspiano]

There's a strong argument for presenting it as an arrangement perhaps, or stating that it's altered. I meant my comment generally not specific to this piece, and you'll also note that I said it demands a concious choice. Misreadings are not in that category.

I think you can alter notes and it still be the composer, though not all notes can be freely altered if you are to maintain something that is still of the given composer. The melody and to a lesser degree, harmonic direction needs to be maintained. This is ofcourse going to be extremely hard with Bach and his multivoice work, as most alterations would alter a melody/theme. Rhythm can probably be altered, but if you are to call it Bach (for example) you would have to maintain a certain style an feel.

As Birba said, it's much more acceptable or perhaps achievable in more contemporary works..

[cbreemer]

Not pedantic at all, I getcha. I myself worry I'm coming off as slightly pretentious here ^_^ This is really the first time I've entered into a debate about my playing. It's only ever been for me before. I never actually expected this level of response, but I'm glad it stirred up some discussion.

So I understand what you're all trying to tell me here, and I respect it. Just like I respect Bach, believe it or not! He's my second favourite composer Anyway, like I said, I'm gonna leave the aria and come back to it at later date with what I hope will be a fresh mind.

It's always useful to get some flak. Nothing is more unhelpful than everybody saying how fantastic and awesome you are, like often seen on YouTube.
Wise decision to leave it for a while. It takes some time to re-think your approach to a piece. Do listen to some recordings to find out where you play different notes, and mark these in your score. Bach is the hardest composer to audition, everybody will pick on each little detail

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.

[pianowolfi]

Oh well, why make it that complicated?? Just correct the misreads and inform yourself about the embellishments, and then keep practicing and playing and enjoying the music Good luck!

[jacobrudduck]

Gone.