Isidor Philipp - Pedagogical tools

[pianoboy91]

     I have recently been doing research on the great French pianist and pedagogue Isidor Philipp. I have discovered some very interesting things that I would like some comments on:
     
     1. In Philipp's "Some Reflections on Piano Playing", he advocates playing all of the scales with the same fingering as C major (I read in an article by the American Liszt Society that Philipp could perform the Mendelssohn Rondo Capriccioso equally well in any key using the same fingering as the original key: E minor). Does anyone do this? and if so: why? My thought is that it is for strengthening all of the fingers when weird hand positions present themselves.

     2. Philipp was very proficient in much of the French repertoire, and was himself a composer. He wrote some interesting piano pieces which I am finding extremely difficult to get my hands on. I have access electronically to some of his works, but for my research I would like to find a published version. I know Durand published his works along with G. Schirmer. The pieces in particular I am trying to find are: Pastels Op. 24, Phalénes, the Two Nocturnes, op. 90, and the Carpice in Double Notes. Any suggestions as to where I might be able to find any of these would be greatly appreciated. 

     There is much more that can be stated and generally asked but I will just leave these two discussion topics for now.

[keyboardclass]

Thanks for sharing that.  I love hearing rare stuff.  Playing all the scales with the same fingering can only be good for you - it was a common idea in the late 19th century.  How often do you come across a scale in a score as you've been taught them anyway?  I was taught Philipp's Dim7 exercises were best for building up fingers.

[pytheamateur]

That's very interesting indeed.  I never knew he wrote music for the piano.  The only work I have is his two books of exercises for finger independence.  I hope it means that they do work (Contrast the case of Hanon, where there seems to be very little evidence of him being a composer or a good pianist).

By the same logic, does this mean that Alfred Cortot's exercises are most useful, given his undisputed reputation as a great pianist?

[pianoboy91]

With regard to the Philipp exercises, Fernando Laires had this to say in the book French Pianism by Charles Timbrell (pg. 84-85):

"Philipp never meant for students to practice any of his exercise books from the first page to the
last. He meant for the teacher and student to pick and choose what was needed....This is the most refined use of Philipp's exrcises - to feel that you are an extension of the keyboard, not that you are hitting and missing as you go along! "Independence" doesn't mean the Hanon-type forcing the fingers to work on their own by articulation, separating the fingers one from the other. By the time you get to Philipp's exercises your fingers should already be able to do that. This is not to denigrate Hanon's exercises. Although Philipp called them peu intéressants, he never suggested that they were useless. It depends on how you practice them. With Philipp's exercises the fingers will gain their independence by having complete control, complete relaxation on the part of those fingers that are touching the keys but not pressing them down, versus those that are pressing them down."

 I actually found Philipp's Caprice Op. 21 in my School's music library, but that was the only work that I found in an actual published volume: French Piano Music An Anthology by Dover Publications, Inc. All of the other works I have are off the internet. 

I have heard that Cortot's method's for studying the Chopin Etudes are very helpful, but I have not looked at anything of his so I would not be able to say for certain.

[flyinfingers]

Thanks for posting this about Philipp.  When I first joined I asked about his book for independence of the fingers (used it as a kid) and I don't think I got any feedback.  This solidifies it:  Ditching the Hanon, getting out the Philipp (like I wanted to from the start)! 

[stephenv]

When I first began piano lessons...age 5, my teacher, bless her, obviously did NOT understand the best way to develop a child's hand and fingers etc for playing the piano.  We started out with Phillipp's Dim 7th's Book 1...right off the bat.  Can you imagine that?  Impossible.  To top that all off, she insisted that fingers NOT being used to play be held.  Well, later in life I became familiar with the work of Guy Maier, one of Americas best teachers ever.   His approach made perfect sense to me, and I credit his exercises as helping me to rehabilitate my hand position etc and to gain facility.  Guided by a competent teacher I made great strides.

Getting back to Phillip's Finger Independence Exs.  They are for "advanced" work!  Not to be undertaken until the student has developed a good hand position and facility at playing 5 finger patterns well. Also it would be wise to make sure the student has flexibility in stretching between fingers.  THEN YES attempting  Phillipp can be very helpful in attaining more control and facility.

Done with great care..and chosen with great care...each exercise can indeed provide a means for attaining more assurance and strength in playing.  I along with Maier try to avoid holding down all fingers while one is trying to play a note....  Following Phillipp's instruction..very important