very extreme "stage" fright

[piano_vs_science]

if i'm left with a piano and no one can see and hear me play, I feel like I can play anything
but if i'm asked to practice I would be so nervous that my hands feel dead and I forget how to read sheet music , even if I'm home alone just thinking about my neighbors listening to me play feels like one of the most horrible experiences anyone can imagine no matter how much I try it never seems to go away!!! the sad thing is I'm really good at playing piano but I'm too nervous
am I the only one who feels like this???
ps what's the most efficient way of practicing/learning a new song???

[keyboardclass]

I think the real problem is that 99% of the activity of playing is non-conscious.  When you're with others that capacity gets reduced as your antennae get non-consciously activated - your memory will suffer.  Obviously added to that is the fear of failure - if nothing else that adds yet another load to the system.  As it's a non-conscious problem there's not much you can do but keep at it and make sure you're using every memory strategy in the book + excellent posture.  I know why it gets you at the back of the neck - anyone want to know?

[piano_vs_science]

so i just ignore my surroundings?
and why does it get me at the back of my neck anyway?

[keyboardclass]

Here's an extract from an article I wrote:

The Nuchal Ligament (Fig. 1 )



With his mention of the ligament of the neck Bowen, interestingly a professor of sports physiology, touched upon what has lately become a substantial theory in human evolution.  Up until recently this ligament had been relegated to a vestige of some earlier evolution:

In man it is merely the rudiment of an important elastic ligament, which, in some of the lower animals serves to sustain the weight of the head.  (Gray, Henry (1918), Anatomy of the Human Body, Twentieth Edition, Lea and Febiger, New York, page 291)

Writing in Nature, Bramble and Lieberman on their theory that we evolved to endurance run:

Another possible structural modification relevant to running is the nuchal ligament, a convergent feature in Homo (first evident in KNM-ER 1813) and other mammals that are either cursorial (for example, dogs, horses, hares) or have massive heads (elephants).   Interestingly, a nuchal ligament is absent in chimpanzees4,31 and apparently in australopithecines (as evinced by the absence of a median nuchal line).  (Bramble DM and Lieberman, DE (2004)  Endurance running and the Evolution of Homo. Nature. 432: 345-352. )

In a later publication they state quite confidently:

That said, the available evidence suggests that Australopithecus lacked many, if not most, of the derived features of Homo that improve [endurance running] performance. Some of these derived features, such as relatively large anterior and posterior semicircular canals, and the nuchal ligament, are specific to running. (  Daniel E. Lieberman, Dennis M. Bramble, David A. Raichlen and John J. Shea (2007), Brains, brawn, and the evolution of human endurance running capabilities in The First Humans -Origin and Early Evolution of the Genus Homo, Grine, Frederick E.; Fleagle, John G.; Leakey, Richard E. (Eds.), page 88)

Why is the nuchal ligament important in running?  What has it to do with performance in the arts?  Let me put two and two together for you.   As Irene Samuel observed (and any performer could tell you) tensions in the neck are preponderantly reported as symptoms of stage fright.  The neck extensor’s role, as I’m sure Bowen was aware, is to tighten the nuchal ligament as it does in other cursorial animals; this allows it to hold the head steady during running.  Pigs haven’t got this ligament – ever seen a pig run?  Its head bobs all over the place, which makes running for any significant distance impossible.   Take into account the real nature of stage fright – adrenaline caused by the fight or flight mechanism, and you have your answer.  A tense neck is the body preparing to run!

so i just ignore my surroundings?

As far as ignoring your surroundings - you can't it's the non-conscious brain paying attention to what's going on around you, you can't control it.  Eventually though it gets more used to it.  My advice is to have the right posture and know where and why tension will creep in so it's not such a concern.

Anyway, look on the bright side - without it you'd be hugging every wild bear you saw and funfairs just wouldn't be any fun!

[roseamelia]

I have the exact same problem too. I can't let anyone else here me without my hands trembling except my family.

[piano_vs_science]

wow!!! you must be good at science

[ethure]

concentration should be helpful for you to play anything you can as when you play alone.

[roseamelia]

actually my teacher said to just pretend your on your own piano at home but it's hard because your not on your own piano.

[rmbarbosa]

I`m portuguese and, in my country, there`s a spetacle named bullfight: a horseman must defy a bull. It`s  neither easy nor without danger. How to win the fear? well, training with another man who acts like the bull... then, training with peaceful cows and only at last with authentic bulls...
With piano, it`s more or lesse the same thing: first, you may wish to record your playing (so, you are not completely alone, you feel more or less stress, because you are recording; after this, you may play only to a friend, a brother or sister, your parents... and so on. Step by step.
And you may wish to calm yourself with a pill. There`s in the market a pill named Valerian: it`s an extract from a plant, without colateral efects. One or 2 pills before you play and you`ll be calm and fine. It`s only a matter of time untill you may play to an audience, you`ll see.
Also it`s very important to concentrate yourself only in the music you are playing. Forget everythnig else.
Best wishes
Rui

[rmbarbosa]

Oh! I forgot to tell you: please look "famous pianists slips during concerts", by pytheamateur, here in this board...

[keyboardclass]

Valerian sounds interesting - I've got some somewhere, must give it a go.

[pytheamateur]

Have you tried a small glass of wine?

[piano_vs_science]

No, I wonder what happens when someone plays the piano when they're drunk???

That's it!!! I'll play when I'm drunk
It won't sound very nice but at least I won't be nervous

[m1469]

Recently I've had some interesting "breakthroughs" for my own mentality regarding this, in terms of areas of thought that I can pinpoint and "handle."  There are three main points that have become clear to me:

1.  In an absolute reality, we own (and have every right to own) our own, personal experience as a performer.  Perception may tell us otherwise but this is a relative perception which can be "handled" and anything that tells us otherwise is false.  It is that perception which brings fear and doubt, and part of not being owned by it is knowing and accepting the deeper truth.  Accepting that as a grounds to reason from is a huge step in and of itself, since it can go completely against the "evidence" of perception.

2.  "Stage fright" is just a term for the perception and experience of an intensified and magnified mentality, which is actually within us in our everyday lives (even if hidden within subconscious), seemingly caused or triggered by the act of performing.  This means it can be handled everyday, and not consciously dealing with it in our everyday lives and practice means that we are susceptible to complete surprise when we step on stage and it intensifies.  Consciously dealing with it everyday builds a muscle to aid us when and if it intensifies in performance.

3.  Pinpointing what it is that we expect or want or hope for from the audience is an important aspect of dealing with the mentality and growing in the strength and ability to deal with it everyday, as well as during performance.


I think everybody thinks of and deals with these things differently, but these are just ideas that I've felt give me a sense of motion in taking steps to working it out.

[nearenough]

Stage fright is largely the fear of losing your place in mid-performnce --getting loss, having a major memory slip, panicking and totally unable to continue, whereas you can perform well when no one is around to witness these possibilities. So:

1. Try rehearsing before a video camera (or sound tape) to get used to playing a work without interrupting yourself, thus gaining confidence in carrying out the whole performance without panicking.

2. Perform before 1-2 friends and relatives, or your teacher and other students and increase this small audience to a larger number gradually and build up your confidence. This may help avoid "freezing up" and losing track. You can say to yourself during the big performance, " I sailed through before and I can do it again."

3. This sound far fetched but it is only one set of ears listening to you no matter how large the audience. They are not connected. They may not recognize mistakes or slips. Whether it is one or a thousand imagine only one person is hearing.

[m1469]

Stage fright is largely the fear of losing your place in mid-performnce --getting loss, having a major memory slip, panicking and totally unable to continue, whereas you can perform well when no one is around to witness these possibilities.

I actually talked about and brainstormed on the subject of performing and nerves with my violin class yesterday because I was really curious what would come of that conversation.  I was fascinated by their thoughts and comments.  I agree that what you say may be true to a large extent, but there is more to it, as well, since none of those things would matter in the same ways if the perceived audience were not capable of thinking in reaction to them.  On top of that, there can also be a fear of doing everything right and essentially it not meaning a thing to anybody, or nothing coming of it, or even being criticized for it.

[pianowolfi]

Have you tried a small glass of wine?

After the performance that's for sure very fine, but not before. That may lead to addiction.

[pianowolfi]

2. Perform before 1-2 friends and relatives, or your teacher and other students and increase this small audience to a larger number gradually and build up your confidence. This may help avoid "freezing up" and losing track. You can say to yourself during the big performance, " I sailed through before and I can do it again."

That's what I tried today, but nobody showed up, or they cancelled. Perhaps I had such a stage fright that it subconsciously scared them away? 

[natalyaturetskii]

I'm 15 and I've had ridiculous stage fright all my life. For my grade 8 exam, I  nearly failed because I just couldn't play in front of the examiner. But when I retook it I passed with a distinction. Between the two exams, I realised that I had to do something about my confidence so I asked my teacher to find out about and concert or playing opportunities. So, in those three months that I had, I just played in random places - playing my exam pieces and I found that it helped. I was very nervous the first few times and made many mistakes and I wondered why I put myself through it, but each time it got easier and now my stage fright is gone - I love performing!

Hope this helps!
Natalya

[pianoman53]

usually, it's because you don't think you know it enough. Obviously, we can never be completely 100% that nothing will go wrong.  There are a few things you can think about:

1. Think everything through in your head. Not like "Okay, it starts here... then I don't know, then it goes there... then I'm basically done." But think of every note, and every dynamic, and even every fingering.

2. Practice the way you perform - meaning, have the same focus you have when you practice, as you would when you perform. You will focus more when you perform, and you will probably not be able to just skip a part in your head and just hope that you will get it right.

3. Don't perform when you aren't ready. As humans, we learn from what happens. What we learn from having a really bad performance might be to know it better to next time, or a different way of preparing. But it will also teach us to be scared. When you mess up in front of an audience, you'll get scared, and your mind will remember it.


That's my top 3 things about stage fright, and I hope it helps

[natalyaturetskii]

Here is the link to an article my friend sent me about practice. The part about 'Mindless Practice' onwards is what you should read. I found that it helped me to prepare for my performances better.

https://www.bulletproofmusician.com/how-many-hours-a-day-should-you-practice/

Natalya

[deego]

a good way to practice playing with listeners is to record your own playing. can be on your smartphone or whatever. but just the fact that you are playing for a recording makes you self concious in the way you become when playing in front of people. you can also film yourself, that would be even more of a challenge.

[m1469]

Another thought which came to me this evening and is helping me to wrap my head around it all:

The actual act of performing is not any more difficult than the act of playing your pieces well.  The rest is just psychological.

[piano_vs_science]

The problem is I can't play my pieces well

[m1469]

The problem is I can't play my pieces well

I think this is ultimately perception/psychological, too.  It is related to your perception of what it means to play well, but also to a basic sense of adequacy or inadequacy, which is related to what we expect/wish for/hope for from the audience (and, consequently, people in general).  I think that we ultimately need to walk out on stage knowing that we are capable of playing well.  Sometimes the disbelief that this could ever be possible for us actually causes a barrier and may even keep it from being so, even in just practice - the very discipline that's supposed to build a successful performance - because mind's eye keeps seeing the "inevitable" failure (built upon doubt and disbelief) and convinces you that the road you are on, all the practicing, all of the successes and all of the failures, only amounts to you walking one step closer to that inevitable failure on stage.  It can be a self-fulfilling prophecy.  But this is all false and ultimately a fabrication, even if there is evidence to back it up, it is built on a lie about your true capabilities.  

The trick is in reversing it and including in your practice and discipline the perception that you can, in fact, play your pieces well, that you are capable and adequate, that you in fact do play them well, and build evidence to back up this perception to the point where that becomes your very practice discipline.    

[victoria_129]

I have this problem as well  my piano teacher holds concerts where all of her students play and there's always a big audience and I get so nervous that it makes me mess up!

[pianoman53]

The problem is I can't play my pieces well

So here s what you do:

1. Start practicing.
2. More than once every 5 month...

[costicina]

I've got the same problem, and I know very well how you feel.  What really has helped me a lot is recording myself whenever I can , even small sections of a piece, or practice sessions....the recording situation is very similar to the public performance situation, but less traumatic. It can be a first step to overcome nerves....

[piano_vs_science]

Did you post your recordings on YouTube???

[m1469]

As I did have a couple of years of piano lessons in my adolescence, including some performances during that time, I remember that piano performance actually came quite easily for me.  The first time I was surprised by all the people in the audience, but things went well that time and I guess I developed an actual confidence on stage.  

I really had a sense that I would go up there and that people were going to like it, and they did.  Memory came naturally for me, pieces weren't hard for me, I was very comfortable at the piano, and music came naturally for me in improvisation, as well, so I think there was a sense that I could always get through something and it just didn't worry me.  Until one time I was overconfident, and I didn't bother to really learn a section of a newer piece very well and I figured it would just be fine, but it wasn't.  It was the first time I ever had a complete blank on or off stage, where there just wasn't music in my mind ... and it was almost traumatic.  I know it is silly to feel that way, I was only 14 or so, but to a person whose being was used to having free access to music and feeling as though that filled all of existence, to have a blank like that was like pitch darkness.  That is what it was like and I hated it and I still hate it with my very guts.  I didn't even know it was possible.  I think I still need to be able to put that behind me, and there's probably a way to do that.

[costicina]

Did you post your recordings on YouTube???

Yes I did!!!!! On Youtube and even here, in the Audition Room:  a 'virtual' audience, nonetheless as demanding and frightening as a real one....but much more competent and very rewarding. This experience has helped dramatically my piano playing. Of course, I'm NOT saying that I'm a good player 

[percy88]

I'm no great player, os specialist, but i also have stage "fright", and get REALLY nervous with audience... THing is, either you get used to it, or you will never be able to play to other people...

When you are playing at home, your relatives will be hearing, so being aware of that and keep playing you will manage to do it sometime....

Recording as people have said works like an audience, i happen to make so many silly mistakes when i'm recording... but doing it like not just occasionally, with some frequency you will get used to it.

Play to other people you are close, your friends it has the same nature, though, you know them pretty well, in the beginning you will still be nervous, but you get used to it.

I think C. C. Chang book about piano talks something about you learning to practice as you were performing, so it will just come out naturally.

[roseamelia]

I had this problem at my recital once, I broke out in tears because I never did it I was to afraid to go up to the piano but I really wanted to do it soo bad!: 

[jeani]

Here is something to notice.  I used to think I was playing well when I was alone, and then when someone would walk in, I would freeze up and play terrible.  Especially when while playing a piece that had a song attached, and someone would start singing with me.. my playing would fall apart.  The truth is, when playing alone, I would gloss over my mistakes and/or replay passages that were wrong, then my mind would put everything together (I believe it subconsciously edits the music) and give me the impression that I did a pretty good job of it!  Well, after having plenty of chances to play for groups of singers at church or nursing home, I realized that I was fooling myself about playing through a piece well at a paced tempo.  In preparation, recording ones self is a good method of practice.  And in preparation for playing for singers, I would ask someone to sing with me when I thought I was ready.  That would reveal to me my flaws, and let me know what I needed to practice.  Another technique I would use is attempting to play a song or piece on a first attempt.. after a half hour or hour ahead without practice.. to see if I had it down. Sometimes after playing a piece over and over it's easy to think that now you have it... until a couple of hours later, when the first attempt reveals many weak spots that need to be thoughtfully analyzed and approached.

[robson]

What do you think why many great players were taking drugs or other tranquilizers???
exactly for the same reason, it's human thing but the best way to overcome is is to be
over prepared, a little bit stoned   and practice public performances whenever possible
playing, talking or whatever.

p.s.
BTW good "semi public" practice is recording yourself, really.
When I do that it feels completely different then I play just for fun,
the moment I press the record button something changes and I feel almost like
I have an audience. 

[nearenough]

What makes you panic is that huge audience out there like a herd of angry reviewers who are going to laugh at your every slip.
Try pretending there's only ONE person listening. When you come down to it, each person there is nothing more than ONE set of ears. Put yourself as being ONE audience stand in. Are you going to react (good or bad) any more than just yourself?

Half don't know what you are playing anyway. The others can only hear you one at a time, so whether there's one or a million, the fear factor can psychologically be reduced to only one critic. He's not connected to any of the others.

[keyboardclass]

You can tell yourself whatever you like - it's the non-conscious self you need to speak with and where are they for craps sake?

[piano_vs_science]

You can tell yourself whatever you like - it's the non-conscious self you need to speak with and where are they for craps sake?

I was thinking the same thing
if I managed to tame my unconscious mind I would play better than Franz Liszt!!!

[ajspiano]

I resolve this simply by performing, repeatedly.

As a kid learning piano I was given the oppurtunity to perform only several times per year. Exams, Competitions and teacher recitals.

Not really enough I think - the audition room is a pretty good start if you don't have a lot of outlets.

I'm lucky enough to have places to play (melbourne rocks) - my current major focus is Chopin 10/1 - i've been playing studying it for just over 10 weeks, and began publicly performing it 2 weeks ago  gave my 5th rendition today, each time its been on a different piano, and infront of a different group of strangers. Its feeling a lot less intimidating now - and the experience highlights the things I most need to work on (lots of things )

My fiance would call it "flooding" (dog training term) - expose yourself to the intimidating situation, get through it without having a negative experience despite your fear - brain is conditioned to realize its not that scary...   maybe doesnt work so well if you have "extreme" stage fright though :/

Ultimately you are best to get over the fear, because its distracting you from just performing - most of the time you perform better when you're in your own world, its just hard to get into that world when people are watching..

[keyboardclass]

I was thinking the same thing
if I managed to tame my unconscious mind I would play better than Franz Liszt!!!

Yes, that's the way to approach it.  ajs is right to use 'flooding' but is conditioning the only way of contacting the non-conscious?

[bdf2d]

Just believe yourself! Then you'll feel better!

[piano_vs_science]

Yes, that's the way to approach it.  ajs is right to use 'flooding' but is conditioning the only way of contacting the non-conscious?

No
it won't work when it's very extreme

[keyboardclass]

No
it won't work when it's very extreme

The meaning of life? ...maybe to reconcile the non-conscious and conscious.

[natalyaturetskii]

I think that I agree with ajspiano. The only way is to do something about it. That's how I overcame it. I had many negative experiences at the start (I wish that I couldn't remember them), but I wanted it enough to try again, even after the most embarrassing failures...

[ajspiano]

Looking closer at "flooding" and its limits -

With animals that have an EXTREME fear, it can do more harm than good. The issue is that for a dog (and yes, your human brain really isn't that different when it comes to this stuff) that encounters something it is afraid of, in order for flooding to work to recondition its reaction it absolutely MUST get through the experience on its own and feel 'ok' afterward. In extreme situations flooding may actually cause damage because the dog is so afraid that it has a total meltdown and is traumatized by the experience.

Adding a positive distraction?

That is that a positive leader (calm and confident persona) will make for some kind of reassurance. In the piano world this would be like performing a duet with someone who is not nervous and knows the piece backwards. I've seen the effect of this numerous times when I've accompanied inexperienced singers. They are literally terrified of going out there alone, however, I'm a strong performer in that realm. A single rehearsal with me usually gives them a lot of performance confidence because they soon realize that if something goes wrong I will rescue them and keep everything on track.

1 person is enough to save a crowd in a performance - I once pulled together the entire orchestra and cast for a song in 'oliver'. One singer skipped a verse and the whole show got thrown out of whack, orchestra fell to bits because they couldnt find where they were up to in the music. After that show people from the audience told us that they didnt realise anything had happened at all, they were listening to the singers and since I had adjusted to the error without skipping a bit it went unnoticed by the majority.

Point of all that being - stick yourself in performance situations where the success of the show doesnt lie on you. Have someone else that will make it work and so it wont matter so much if you screw up. Be part of a strong team that will lift you up and give you confidence.

...

Personify the audience -

It distracts you from what they are thinking, because you're thinking about them. Don't rush out on stage and go straight to the piano all nervous. Just calmly check out the audience, see who's around, talk to them if its the kind of performance that permits that. It all helps you feel more comfortable in the environment because it becomes less foreign.

..run out of time to type more..

AJ

[keyboardclass]

This is worth watching (a mate of mine):

[m1469]

Well, these last two concerts this weekend were very interesting for me along all of these lines.  Saturday, before the recital, I wasn't outrageously nervous but was nervous and distracted the entire recital long.  Whereas yesterday, Sunday, I pretty much had a major freak out before people started showing up, but once they started showing up and once I started playing, I really settled into it and experienced more freedom in my playing than the day before. 

So, one thing I learned about nerves in general is that just because a person's nervous doesn't necessarily indicate what will happen while performing (even though it can seem like it will). 

[pianowolfi]

Well, these last two concerts this weekend were very interesting for me along all of these lines.  Saturday, before the recital, I wasn't outrageously nervous but was nervous and distracted the entire recital long.  Whereas yesterday, Sunday, I pretty much had a major freak out before people started showing up, but once they started showing up and once I started playing, I really settled into it and experienced more freedom in my playing than the day before. 

So, one thing I learned about nerves in general is that just because a person's nervous doesn't necessarily indicate what will happen while performing (even though it can seem like it will). 

Certainly this Sunday type of experience might be preferable.
The Saturday type might be typical for a situation where you haven't performed for a while.
I also haven't performed for quite a while, so I followed the strategy to play a few pieces at my student's recital, just like 10 Minutes in total, and now I set a date for two dress rehearsals for my next saturday home concert, one tomorrow and the other one on Friday, one day before the performance. Anyway I had some good experiences with tryout performances "the day before".

[pts1]

piano_vs_science

this guy's not for real and is playing all of you

[m1469]

Certainly this Sunday type of experience might be preferable.

The experience I had playing on Sunday is of course more preferable to that of my experience playing Saturday but the type of freak out I had before the concert on Sunday was more existential, related to piano playing etc., vs. just plain nerves about performing itself.  Yes, that was mixed in there but with deeper overtones.  I think it's right for me to overcome this kind of existential freak out.  As I am aiming to take an extremely pragmatic point of view on my performances and my ability to learn these skills, something that I think is interesting to note is that in both cases, I was still able to get up and perform and pull off a very fluid performance/recital (not without mistakes and "creative" decisions, but fluid, nonetheless, which was one of my primary goals).  I find this to be very ... interesting to note especially perhaps in the Saturday experience of playing, as I heard in my head voices from the past, I was distracted and nervous (as I stated above) nearly the entire time, and then many other thoughts in some kind of "tape" rolling through my mind.  In this case of Saturday, I didn't necessarily fight it but rather decided to just play and keep playing anyway, and it seems that despite the level of mental distraction -which was a shallow distraction- there was a deeper access to a deeper understanding of the music, and a deeper intelligence (not deeper than Sunday's playing, but deeper than the distraction).

  

The Saturday type might be typical for a situation where you haven't performed for a while.  I also haven't performed for quite a while, so I followed the strategy to play a few pieces at my student's recital, just like 10 Minutes in total, and now I set a date for two dress rehearsals for my next saturday home concert, one tomorrow and the other one on Friday, one day before the performance. Anyway I had some good experiences with tryout performances "the day before".

One of the next performances I will set up is that of my studio recital, where I will program a piece for myself (probably ABEGG and perhaps Chopin 25/1), where we will be in a church.  I *might* also perform a piece (perhaps ABEGG, once again) in the school's music concert, which is in two Thursdays.  I'll see about that one.  But then, there are still more to set up.