Chopin Etudes in order of difficulty

[candypiano]

Hi guys, I have asked many people of how they would rank the Chopin Etudes op 10 and op 25 in order of their difficulty and the most frequent answer I got is THEY ARE ALL DIFFICULT!  But come on, there should be some rank amongst them.  So, if anyone can rank these 24 pieces in order of difficulty, it would be great. Thanks! 

[lorditachijr]

The reason people tell you that is because it's very difficult and sort of illogical to rank these pieces by difficulty. The variety of technique is so immense among them that one etude may seem easy to one person and yet fiendishly difficult to another. If you want a rough leveling, check out the Henle website, but I think it's almost impossible to provide an objective piece-by-piece ranking of these pieces.

[nearenough]

Op 10 #2 is insanely difficult. It tortures the third fourth and fifth fingers for the first page and a half and then mischievously puts a second finger note a couple of times on the bottom of the second page which forces a different stretch on already paralyzed fingers. 3rd page has downward slip-slides (5th finger from black to white keys) and more of the same. Many professionals can play it, even after doing #1 (Kissin on You Tube, Richter on a Prague CD set, Ashkenazy, Abbey Simon. Rubinstein made an attempt on a German broadcast interview at a Steinway factory; Horowitz never played it to my knowledge. I believe some have the facility to do it lightly. evenly and clearly; others, including me, do not.

The other etudes are all easier.

[j_menz]

Op 10 #2 is insanely difficult. ....The other etudes are all easier.

I actually find 10/2 somewhat easier than some of the others. Years of bad fingering finally paid off. 

To the OP question, yes they are all difficult. What ones are more difficult than others depends entirely on what you are good at and what you're not.

[iratior]

I love these etude-difficulty-rating debates!  I can't guarantee that what I think is more difficult today will be what I will think is more difficult next week, though!  A lot depends on 1) having a good teacher show you the secret wrist and arm movements that permit you to hit the keys with the necessary minimum of effort and maximum of accuracy, 2) what priority you accord to mastering the various technical demands of the piece, and how exacting your standards are for mastering them (for example, dynamic control), and 3) what you are currently keeping in practice.  So on that basis, here's a list, from most to least difficult:  25/4, 10/1, 25/3, 25/9, 10/5, 10/8, 10/4, 25/8, 10/2, 25/11, 10/10, 25/6, 25/5, 10/3, 10/7, 10/11, 25/12, 25/2, 10/12, 25/10, 25/1, 25/7, 10/9, 10/6.

[squarevince]

So on that basis, here's a list, from most to least difficult:  25/4, 10/1, 25/3, 25/9, 10/5, 10/8, 10/4, 25/8, 10/2, 25/11, 10/10, 25/6, 25/5, 10/3, 10/7, 10/11, 25/12, 25/2, 10/12, 25/10, 25/1, 25/7, 10/9, 10/6.

25/6 the 12th most difficult etude?  i'd like some of whatever it is that you're smoking...

[iratior]

In explanation of why I didn't rate 25/6 as more difficult than I did:  I don't use Czerny-based fingerings;  I prefer to base fingerings on the underlying rhythm and love to use the thumb on black keys.  I guess one of the secrets to doing 25/6 is to keep the index finger of the right hand as relaxed and extended as possible as much of the time as possible throughout the piece.  The right wrist moves in a counterclockwise (one revolution per quarter note) motion most of the time.  And by the way, I don't smoke but do enjoy a little goblet of Chambord every now and then.

[nyonyo]

I love these etude-difficulty-rating debates!  I can't guarantee that what I think is more difficult today will be what I will think is more difficult next week, though!  A lot depends on 1) having a good teacher show you the secret wrist and arm movements that permit you to hit the keys with the necessary minimum of effort and maximum of accuracy, 2) what priority you accord to mastering the various technical demands of the piece, and how exacting your standards are for mastering them (for example, dynamic control), and 3) what you are currently keeping in practice.  So on that basis, here's a list, from most to least difficult:  25/4, 10/1, 25/3, 25/9, 10/5, 10/8, 10/4, 25/8, 10/2, 25/11, 10/10, 25/6, 25/5, 10/3, 10/7, 10/11, 25/12, 25/2, 10/12, 25/10, 25/1, 25/7, 10/9, 10/6.

Did you order this randomly? How could 25/2 is harder than 10/12, or what made 25/9 harder than 10/4. There are some that are debatable but my example is clear, and no doubt.

[iratior]

In explanation, 25/2 is rated a little more difficult than 10/12 because of being deemed to have more rhythmic subtlety.  Those triplets in the right hand should really sound like triplets, not to have two consecutive triplets sound like a  sextuplet with three accents.  25/9 is deemed to be more difficult than 10/4 because of having bigger leaps, as well as a need (it's called the butterfly etude, after all) to sound very delicate, in spite of having consecutive sixteenth note octaves.

[marik1]

In explanation, 25/2 is rated a little more difficult than 10/12 because of being deemed to have more rhythmic subtlety.  Those triplets in the right hand should really sound like triplets, not to have two consecutive triplets sound like a  sextuplet with three accents.  25/9 is deemed to be more difficult than 10/4 because of having bigger leaps, as well as a need (it's called the butterfly etude, after all) to sound very delicate, in spite of having consecutive sixteenth note octaves.

Interesting logic. Just out of curiosity, what would be the logic of 25/9 deemed to be more difficult than 25/8, and be 16 positions (!!!) more difficult than 25/10? Also, I'd be interested to know why 10/5 is 5 positions higher in difficulty than 25/11 let alone, in top 5 most difficult Chopin etudes.

Best, M

[ajspiano]

In explanation, 25/2 is rated a little more difficult than 10/12 because of being deemed to have more rhythmic subtlety.  Those triplets in the right hand should really sound like triplets, not to have two consecutive triplets sound like a  sextuplet with three accents.

One might suggest that for those at the point of considering studying multiple chopin etudes than the ongoing 3 vs 2 polyrhythm in 25/2 shouldnt be the significant factor..  ..also 10/12 has 3s vs 4s in the second run of the theme, generally 3 vs 4 is harder than 3 vs 2.

[nyonyo]

In explanation, 25/2 is rated a little more difficult than 10/12 because of being deemed to have more rhythmic subtlety.  Those triplets in the right hand should really sound like triplets, not to have two consecutive triplets sound like a  sextuplet with three accents.  25/9 is deemed to be more difficult than 10/4 because of having bigger leaps, as well as a need (it's called the butterfly etude, after all) to sound very delicate, in spite of having consecutive sixteenth note octaves.

By the way, have you, at least, played those 4 etudes to come up with your conclusion? Is your conclusion based on what you think, not what you had done?   FYI, etude 25/2 and 25/9 are the two of the easiest etudes in the book.

[nyonyo]

One might suggest that for those at the point of considering studying multiple chopin etudes than the ongoing 3 vs 2 polyrhythm in 25/2 shouldnt be the significant factor..  ..also 10/12 has 3s vs 4s in the second run of the theme, generally 3 vs 4 is harder than 3 vs 2.

25/2 is not a polyrhythm. The RH has 12 notes, and the LH has 6 notes. Believe me, I had played this etude successfully. 12/6 = 2 notes. It is totally different from Fantasy Impromptu.

[ajspiano]

25/2 is not a polyrhythm. The RH has 12 notes, and the LH has 6 notes.

The underlying pulse is a polyrhythm - 2 beats/pulses of 3 in the RH vs the 3 pulses of 2 in the LH - twice per bar.

EDIT: maybe "polyrhythm" isnt the best word to describe it, but the skill required is very similar - and it can be learnt quickly by dropping the offbeat notes in the RH temporarily, creating a much more obvious 2 vs 3 feel. I might also add that its further reduced by the fact that the piece is in cut common time - doesnt meant it isn't there though. The minum beats are not polyrhythmic, but the crotchet divisions are.

Believe me, I had played this etude successfully.

Bold of you to supposedly assume I haven't studied it. - particularly after my making a comment regarding the complexity of its rhythms.

[nearenough]

An additional note since no one mentioned it: in 25:6 the double thirds the top of the second page has always been insoluble to me because of the near impossibility of keeping up a fast speed while maintaining smoothness in the face of jumps of the thumb between 2 white keys. My score has 3 printed fingering sequences and I added a 4th.  I wonder what the experts do. Then on the 3rd page the downward back and forth sequences are easily done on the first run as there is no shape-shifting to and from the black keys, but on the second one wonders whether to maintain 5-4 on all the upper thirds or switch from 5-4 to 5-3 on about 6 of the thirds. In most of the rest of the piece I use the second finger to slip downward from the balck keys to the next lower white key which avoids a thumb doing the next white-white jump.
I am an amateur. For some strange reason I found 10-1 and 10-7 doable and easier than some of the rest. 25-4 requires a precise sense of spacial awareness of the bass jumps which are tiring. I can play 10-12, 10-4 and 10-7 without much of a problem (of course none of them perfectly -- don't ask). 10-11 is too stretchy to allow comfort and enjoyment so isn't rewarding enough to spend much time on.
I was on a cruise where a really professional virtuoso (Russian) played gave spectacular performances of some of the Rachmaninoff Etudes Tableaux (notably Op 39 #1 and the little red riding hood and the wolf one) and conversed with him a bit. He confided that many pianists avoid bothering learning all of them as some are so difficult as to not being worth time and effort in trying to learn them for performance.
Then you have to wonder about Godowsky's reworking of all of them, some for left hand only, and recorded spectacularly by Marc-Andre Hamelin, who probably thought to himself, ("what's all the fuss about?")

[iratior]

In explanation, 10/5 was rated more difficult than 25/11 because, to be absolutely scrupulous about maintaining the tempo of 10/5 when it has the double octaves at the ending, would be very difficult.  To play 10/12, it probably helps that I'm left-handed.  In this etude, I find that it is very important to keep the thumb of the left hand as relaxed and given "time off" as possible.  To be better able to play 25/6, I can give two suggestions here.  First:  I would suggest the following fingering for the right hand, beginning at measure 11:
                  4354 3434 3543 4343
                  2132 1212 1321 2121
To facilitate having to move the third finger from the D-sharp to the A-sharp, be rotating the right elbow counterclockwise, one revolution per quarter-note, in such a way that its motion helps you pull the third finger more quickly away from the D-sharp and onto the A-sharp.  Second:  when you get to those killer thirds in Bb major at measure 29, be music-theory-minded:  learn to play it in every key!  You'll be discovering that learning to play it in G-major and F-major eases the transition to playing it in Bb major. 

[nyonyo]

Bold of you to supposedly assume I haven't studied it. - particularly after my making a comment regarding the complexity of its rhythms.

There is nothing complex about the rhythms. You just made it complicated for no reason.

[pianovlad1996]

That ranking made by iratior is totally wrong and I doubt that he played at least 10 etudes by Chopin. First, we all know the difficulty philosophy in which every player has a different perspective about difficulties- one will consider difficult what someone else will find easy and comfortable. This ranking is a totally wrong understanding of that idea. I played all the Chopin etudes and I can say that Op.25 No.10is more difficult than etudes like Op.10 no.3,5,10,11,12 and Op.25 No.1,2,5,8,9. Op.25 No.9 is one of the most difficult ones according to your list-let's ignore the butterfly name. This etude is a piece of cake compared to Op.10 No.1,2,4,7,8,10,11,12 and Op.25 No.3,4,5,6,8,10,11,12. Almost 80% of the etudes I listed are placed lower than the butterfly etude. Also, the Op.10 No.4 is not a bunch of sixteen notes played at a virtuosic speed- it has to be played in piano, legato, leggiero, with a soft and delicate touch and with a clarity that is difficult to obtain. Also, I doubt that the Op.10 No.5 etude is so difficult. The octaves at the end of the etude are not so difficult to put Op.10 no.2,4,7,8,10 and Op.25 No.6,8,10,11,12 to shame. Op.10 No.7 is more difficult than Op.10 No.3 because of the technique required. That is not all I have to say but I don't have time to say something else. Bye and hope nobody will eat me when I return...

[49410enrique]

[ajspiano]

You just made it complicated for no reason.

Perhaps, but I'm not asserting that it's overly complex - Just that it is polyrhythmic. Even if you don't agree that it's of importance I don't see how you argue that the polyrhyhm is not there, it's in the score very obviously, it's grouped as 4 crotchets in the RH against 6 in the LH.

This is not any kind of attack on you or your playing, or how you learnt the piece - I'm sure you play it beautifully. But given it's a étude, and Chopin etudes are masterfully cultivated to teach us many things, why did Chopin write in 2/2 with all the triplets? Why not just write it in 6/4? - or if you need a more obvious difference in feel, 3/2. All these time signatures can accommodate your assertion thats the 12 quavers in the RH over 6 crotchets in the left is all that matters in determining the feel..

So did Chopin choose 2/2 flippantly and believe it's irrelevant? Or did he choose 2/2 because that accomodates the feel he was after for the étude?

[iratior]

All right, pianovlad1996, why don't we get YOUR listing of all 24 etudes from most to least difficult?  I never claimed that rating the difficulty of pieces could be anything more than a matter of opinion.  You say that opus 10 no. 4 imposes lots of demands on the performer.  Well, so do all the other etudes.  Rather than criticize other people's assessments of the difficulties, tell us precisely what your assessment of all the difficulties is.  Perhaps those who know the secrets of how to perform the etudes will be gracious enough to share them.

[ajspiano]

I actually don't understand the fascination with the order of difficulty - does one plan to learn them easiest to hardest?

Given that we have an individual experience of the difficulties, how will you know what YOUR order is without studying the whole set? and how will you form an accurate and fair conclusion compared to your current skill level given that each etude studied will make each subsequent etude that little bit easier in some way?

Maybe one should just study 24 all at once.

[iratior]

There is indeed a fascination with the order of difficulty of the Chopin Etudes, given how legendary that difficulty is.  It is a lot like a mystery story where the clues get gradually revealed.  And yes, perceptions of the difficulties can vary; I admitted as much when I wrote that my assessment of the difficulties might be different a week from now.  But it takes away from the satisfaction of accomplishing something, not to have a perception that difficulties have been overcome, that puzzles were solved.  After all, pianists spend years trying to master the etudes;  they seem to have a mysterious story to tell, and so do the pianists who study them.  And one doesn't have to know how a mystery ends to have a sense of being involved in it.

[marik1]

I agree with Pianovlad--only those who played all the etudes can really understand and give any meaningful sense of relative difficulty of each one. Certainly, by “played”, one would assume as “brought to a concert standard”—in other words, not only read through, but also have mastered them up to a reasonable performance level—up to a tempo, with reasonable accuracy, realizing all other musical/technical obvious and hidden challenges, such as musical expression, correct touch, lightness, phrasing, etc. etc. etc.

By no means I would claim I could fulfill all of those requirements, but since I played MOST of them (about 20) and on a week notice would be ready to play in concert or record any of the most demanding ones, I’d like to offer my idea about their difficulties level. Also, in that ranking I take into consideration some other facts, such successful renditions of the etudes I heard on many International Piano Competitions, as well as discussions with some rather famous pianists, who have performed them live as a set.

First of all, I would not rank them “one over another”, just because of individual hand structure--the hands size and span, as well as individual “preference” of one type of technique over another. In other words, it is obvious that for some hands (for example, mine), say, 10/11 would be very easy, while for others very difficult, not to mention for some 10/1 would feel much easier than 10/2, but for others 10/2 would feel pretty much straight forward (while 10/1 almost unplayable).

In this respect, some would find that a certain kind of technique (for example, arpeggios, rolled chords, octaves, sixths, thirds, or “weak fingers”, etc.) would feel easier and preferable over another.

Of course, here there is some common sense, for example, if any (or most) of those do not exhibit any problem, then MOST LIKELY the rest of etudes would not be a problem, either, due to a certain level the pianist has already acquired.

Another problem in such ranking is that MOST of the etudes while for the most of the part feel pretty comfortable, almost always invariably can have a couple “unplayable” spots. Again, while very valid point, that is still quite individual and cannot be put against “overall” difficulty because of too many individual variables.

So, with all that long preambula, my ranking would be very approximate and personal. As such, I would not put it into “one etude over another”, but rather gather them into four groups:

1st group: Most demanding, which require lots of stamina to withstand long going pianistic patterns, complicated by certain musical challenges—certain touch, or certain kind of technique with little, or no rest in between to “take a breath”, and quite a few individual challenging difficulties. To this group I’d put (in chronological order):

op.10 no.1, 2 and op.25 no. 6, 8, 10, 11.

2nd group: Very demanding, with lots of individual challenges, but generally, easier accessible, “easier on hands”, and “more readily performed”:

Op. 10 no.4, 7, 8, 10, 11, Op. 25 no.4.

3rd group: The ones, which usually used as “first” Chopin etudes—still challenging but with less pianistic “surprises”—those, which once acquired and “sorted out”, go along pretty well:

Op. 10 no. 5, 12, Op. 25 no. 1, 2, 3, 21, 24.

4th group: “Slow” etudes—often excluded from many competitions requirements. IMHO, by no means “easier” ones and in a sense many of them exhibit much more challenging difficulties, but… slower:

Op. 10 no.3, 6, 9, Op. 25 no. 5, 7

Again, this classification is very approximate and very individual—some would swap some etudes from one group to another, however, I hope FOR THE MOST it would be AT LEAST indicative.

Moreover, if we start talking about the highest performing achievements of each of those etudes then this classification would become completely meaningless. Indeed, if we are talking about something like performance of op.10/2 on the level of V. Rudenko, Op.10/4 on the level of Richter, Op.10/7 or 12 on the level Ignaz Friedman, Op.25 no. 8 on the level of L. Berman, Op. 25 no. 10 on the level of J. Lhevinne, or ANY OTHER SINGLE etude from Op. 25 as performed by G. Sokolov, then any of those would just become unachievable life time goals (indeed, if you are on that level, you do not ask for ranking).

As a last word, just listen how Ilana Vered plays Moszkowski etudes, or Josef Lhevinne plays some Czerny (!!!) etudes to understand how silly and stupid those rankings are, to start with… it is always not about “what”, but about “how”.

Best, M

[thalbergmad]

Should be saved for eternity and posted whenever someone else asks the same question.

Thal

[ajspiano]

Should be saved for eternity and posted whenever someone else asks the same question.

Thal

^ strongly agree.

[iratior]

Thank you, marik1, for your contribution to this discussion.  However, if one were to go by pianovlad1996's standard, you would not be qualified to assess the difficulties of the etudes, because you haven't yet played them all.  I've read that Horowitz and Rubenstein never recorded all the etudes, which leads to the speculation that perhaps not even they would be qualified, by pianovlad1996's standard, to assess the difficulties.  The trouble with allowing the difficulties of the etudes to be assessed only by those who can play all of them is that it throws away too much pertinent information;  it is statistically biased.  If someone tries to play an etude and finds it unplayable, it seems unreasonable for that evidence not to be taken into account, when assessing difficulties.  On the other hand, if someone is able to play an etude, despite not doing them all, it seems unreasonable for that evidence not to be taken into account as well.  Therefore I would argue that a more democratic standard is appropriate for being qualified to judge the difficulties of the etudes.

[squarevince]

Thanks Marik, very insightful.  Curious if you fall into the "big hands" or "small hands" category?  and how that affects your take on 10/1 and 25/11?  I fall into the former camp, and am working on bringing it up to tempo now, and while it's not a cakewalk, I'm finding it a lot easier than 10/4 or 10/12, as it's short, repetitive, and no tricky fingerwork.  25/11 also hasn't been overly challenging to learn, although definitely trickier and longer.

However... I look at 10/2, 25/6, 25/8, and just feel they're so daunting that i'll never be able to learn them with my limited time I can play.

PS... I've never heard op 25 #21 & #24...

[pianovlad1996]

Dear iratior, I absolutely love how you attack me. I didn't want to say that somebody who didn't played all the Chopin etudes can't rank them. It is a matter of technical and musical aspects that should be seen from the perspective of someone who played at least a couple of etudes to judge their real difficulty and not a fictive and subjective one. Be sure that Rubinstein and Horowitz were pianists that didn't spend time on such topics. I agree with thalbergmad- this topic is quite boring. Questions like: What is the most difficult.....? Rank these in order of difficulty... and so on became boring because they are repetitive.
Timea

[iratior]

I, Iratior, do not wish to attack anyone, but find the subject of etude difficulty to be interesting, if controversial.  One of the reasons that assessing the difficulty of the etudes is controversial is that there is a difference between the individualized assessments of the difficulties, such as I gave, and the sort of assessments of difficulties one might get by combining all the individualized assessments and doing a statistical analysis of them.  I am still thinking about how all the individualized assessments could be combined.  If someone knows only four etudes, that is still evidence that should be taken into account for the statistical analysis.  We might be able to say that they can rank their etudes from 21st to 24th most difficult.  So they might rank 10/6 as 24th,10/9 as 23rd,25/1 as 22nd, and 10/3 as 21st.  So on a ballot, we list the etudes from 10/1 through 25/12, with blanks alongside, and write '24' beside 10/6, '23' beside 10/9, '22' beside 25/1, and '21' beside 10/3.  Then we have to decide what to write in the blanks.  If they were filled at random with an ordering of the numbers from 1 to 20, the average would be 10.5 in each blank.  So the completed ballot is:
10/1 10.5 10/2 10.5 10/3 21 10/4 10.5 10/5 10.5 10/6 24 10/7 10.5 10/8 10.5 10/9 23 10/10 10.5 10/11 10.5 10/12 10.5 25/1 22 25/2 10.5 25/3 10.5 25/4 10.5 25/5 10.5 25/6 10.5 etc.
So each ballot has a vector of rankings;  we could average the vectors over the entire population to get a statistic.  Meanwhile, people might be fascinated by the wide variability of individualized assessments, and sharing secrets (as I did for the etude in thirds) they've discovered for making easier what many have found difficult.

[fftransform]

Meanwhile, people might be fascinated by the wide variability of individualized assessments, and sharing secrets[.]

I think people are more prone to be fascinated about why somebody who has 100%-obviously not played any of the Chopin Etudes would not only bother to try to rank them, but would be so assured of his own assessment.  You don't understand: it's not that your listing is subjectively poor.  It's objectively poor, or as close as it could come in such a situation.  Putting 25-4, 25-9 and 10-5 at the top of your list is completely equatable to saying that the Moonlight Sonata is harder than the Hammerklavier.  It's just flat-out wrong.

I think that it's very poor form for you to try to answer somebody's question when you don't know the answer.  A person was looking for advice that you are not qualified to give, so when you try to give advice as clearly erroneous as yours, it is somewhat deceitful.  It muddies the waters for them, so to speak, not to mention the fact that if you're going to post in this thread, there is an implicit intension that you know what you're talking about, which is also misleading, to say the least.


Regardless, this thread is quite dumb, given that there are probably at least 15 threads on this site (low estimate) that deal with the exact same topic.

As far as statistics go, a poll was created on this very topic here.  The results are here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=16399.0

As you can see, your claims are not supported statistically.  Also, add "vectors" to the list of things that you shouldn't talk about, because you have no idea what they are.  And before you start, let me inform you of the fact that I am literally a mathematician, and that there isn't any subjectivity for your crappy arguments to lean on when it comes to mathematics.

[pianoman53]

LOL!!!

[49410enrique]

for the folks just joining us, here's a brief synopsis of the entire discussion and general progress of the thread,


ok now you're caught up.

[pytheamateur]

The first Chopin Etude my teacher got me to learn is Op 10, No 3.  However, he has never said that this is the easiest one; for him nothing that Chopin wrote is easy.  On the other hand, from memory I think many competitions that require people to play Chopin Etudes would exclude some that they regard as not being virtuostic, and Op 10 No3 is one of them.  Of couse that does not mean that Op 10 , No 3 is easy: it is just not one where you have to play a lot of notes fast.

[iratior]

I'm not going to be intimidated by all fftransform's hot air and unproved assertions.  I don't believe that the Moonlight Sonata is harder than the Hammerklavier, but I defend anyone's right to believe so, if they want to.  I examined the link fftransform provides, and find nothing in it that contradicts any of my opinions.  No one else may have believed 25/4 was hardest, so what?  Different people have different opinions as to which etude is hardest.  And I knew exactly what word I wanted, when I used the word "vector".  You will notice that fftransform never remarked on the structure of my proposed data collection.  Could it be that he didn't understand it?  In contrast to the elitism implicit in saying that one has to have played all the Chopin etudes to be qualified to assess their difficulty, I would take evidence from anyone who has learned that, for them at least, some of the etudes are more difficult than others.  It doesn't matter to me whether they have ever performed them in a concert;  as far as I'm concerned, they're still entitled to give an opinion, based on their personal experience, rather than that of the elite.  Finally, fftransform describes himself as "literally" a mathematician.  Heaven forbid he be only "figuratively" so.  In any case, one doesn't need to be a professional mathematician to know the difference between a proof and an insult.

[ansgarpiano]

I have played 12 of the 24, and i can give you my personal ranking even though it seems out of context as they are the technical top of classical piano all off them in my opinion. Legendairy pieces that you leave and come back to. Eternal leaning for every pianist.

From easiest to hardest

Op 25 no 7
Op 10 no 6
Op 10 no 9
Op 25 no 1
Op 10 no 3
Op 10 no 11
Op 10 no 12
Op 25 no 12
Op 10 no 7
Op 10 no 1
Op 10 no 2
Op 10 no 4

[briansaddleback]

(Disclaimer . Not pointing finger at any particular person here. Just posting my thoughts as this thread just popped up).

They're all hard. Not one is more than the other in terms of refining a performance rendition of them for yourself.  They all trip you up in a variety of ways each one of them do.

Playing them roughly /rawly / unrefined they're no more difficult than any of your standard piano repertoire. Refining that last 10-20% of the etude (or any piece in fact) is where real development of technique comes. That's when these become etudes to you.  Anyone can go figure out and memorize a bunch of notes and call it in saying they play etudes.

Chopin Etudes and czerny exercises will be a lifelong endeavor for me. Always will be a work-in-progress. Never finished. Like rings in a tree or layers of an onion. You keep adding them until you eventually get felled and the logger can see your years of progress. A real, appreciated , Bona fide definition of a strong aged powerful quality redwood or mahogany tree , the wood can be used for elegant and very high end furniture pieces ...

Or in the onion analogy, it is about depth not breadth ..wise and discerning VS young talented and foolish shallow-sighted.
..you keep peeling back the raw tough bitter parts and get to the more refined sweet scented bulb where not many a man could think to go. Because they keep half peeling tons of onions and never concentrate on the beauty of just one.

[chopinawesome]

(Disclaimer . Not pointing finger at any particular person here. Just posting my thoughts as this thread just popped up).

They're all hard. Not one is more than the other in terms of refining a performance rendition of them for yourself.  They all trip you up in a variety of ways each one of them do.

Playing them roughly /rawly / unrefined they're no more difficult than any of your standard piano repertoire. Refining that last 10-20% of the etude (or any piece in fact) is where real development of technique comes. That's when these become etudes to you.  Anyone can go figure out and memorize a bunch of notes and call it in saying they play etudes.

Chopin Etudes and czerny exercises will be a lifelong endeavor for me. Always will be a work-in-progress. Never finished. Like rings in a tree or layers of an onion. You keep adding them until you eventually get felled and the logger can see your years of progress. A real, appreciated , Bona fide definition of a strong aged powerful quality redwood or mahogany tree , the wood can be used for elegant and very high end furniture pieces ...

Or in the onion analogy, it is about depth not breadth ..wise and discerning VS young talented and foolish shallow-sighted.
..you keep peeling back the raw tough bitter parts and get to the more refined sweet scented bulb where not many a man could think to go. Because they keep half peeling tons of onions and never concentrate on the beauty of just one.

I agree. All the etudes are difficult. They all are challenging in different ways. For example, Op.10/6 and Op.10/3(and probably some other slower etudes) are meant for phrasing and voicing, while Op.10/9 and 10/12 are meant for the L.H. Some people might think Op.10/3 is more difficult than Op.10/9 and 10/12,while others think exactly the opposite, so I think ranking pieces on how difficult they are is a bad idea. However, you could rank them by their technique. Very subjective.

[chopinlover01]

C'mon, guys. The discussion was dead. The last thing we need is MORE pointless arguing over the most controversial set of etudes written.

[mattouven]

@briansaddleback

Hey, cakes...cakes have layers!!

[dogperson]

@briansaddleback

Hey, cakes...cakes have layers!!

Gosh
What an erudite first post and replying to one over three years old 

[fftransform]

My answer is still the best one, obv.

I think that 25-6 and 10-2 are the only ones I've ever heard competition-level pianists say they're "scared of" or "will never play."  There's no way to hack them.

[cuberdrift]

My answer is still the best one, obv.

I think that 25-6 and 10-2 are the only ones I've ever heard competition-level pianists say they're "scared of" or "will never play."  There's no way to hack them.

Indeed.

The standards:

[fftransform]

I think Wunder's 10-2 is considered the modern standard.  There's a more note-perfect studio version, but this one's more exciting.  For 25-6 I like Backhaus, though it's believed that he cheated on the perf; Friedman's 25-6 is interesting.

[chechig]

I've always heard that the less difficult ones were "Les trois nouvelles ètudes"