What Controls Work Habits???

[lostinidlewonder]

TLDR VERSION:
Teachers need to determine what drives a student to work. Once we have worked out their motivations sometimes we need to encourage changes to these if the student hopes to ever make effective progress.

LONG VERSION:
How difficult is it to start to do something every day that is out of your normal routine? Of the many students I have taught over the years I find that improving students work habits are one of the more difficult achievements.

Students that work consistently make the most grounds. I find some just love the act of learning new things and mastering old skills, they are strongly knowledge/achievement driven. There are some who love music so much so that the passionate/spiritual connection they have with the music drives them to work hard at it. A few are motivated to do well because of the money/material they can make from it. Then there are some who are forced into a strict regime often set by the parents but of course not excluding the examination student or music major who must abide by a syllabus.

I find that not all my students necessarily fall into ONE group or the other, there often is a combination of motivations encouraging them to work consistently, I find these ones make the best progress. As a teacher I can sense what motivations are more important to the student and often I need to make decisions as to whether or not they need to improve upon that.

For example: an excited student telling me that they need to learn this piece (which is too difficult for them) simply because they "love it".  As a teacher in my mind I need to work out whether or not they are really serious when they say they "love" the piece, just loving it is not enough, are they really willing to work hard or do they just want to hack their way through it and have a brief messy affair with the piece? Often I will let the student learn the piece but it never becomes a main focus of the lesson, we will do bits and pieces only. If they are really serious they will learn easier pieces which will build them to be able to play the piece they love with less problems.
      I have to admit however that some students are with such determination!! They insist in playing a piece too difficult for them so I take them through the process. A few times we have achieved wonderful results but most of the times they are left with difficulty upon difficulty and they cannot cope with the amount of practice/progress required or cannot deal with the slow learning curve. I find at this instance when they realize the work they love is too difficult/inefficient for them to learn, if they need to have other motivation to learn, I am yet to find a student then being so stubborn to NOT take my advice to learn something easier and build towards their goal. Most of the student "get it" and thus we have changed their source of motivation. As the teacher I allowed them to "test the waters" of the piece they love I showed them the amount of work required to do it service (or to play it at all!), once they realized they have been too ambitious they then make changes in what drives their motivation. They needed to try first at least I find most students need that, just to try it, fail, then work out how to get there with the teachers assistance. No longer are they simply playing to learn a piece they love, but they are excited as they work towards being able to finally play the pieces they love, there lies a big difference.

It is not surprising that I find that many young students like to get rewards, stickers or lollies! It is not bad to bribe your students with these at least they get a sense of achievement and a sticker to a child is worth a lot don't you remember?? But as they grow up this sort of thing gets old. I find after a while this system of giving rewards becomes less effective at motivating a student to do work, its "luster and shine" wears down.

The student needs to find a stronger motivation to do well with their piano (or anything else for that matter). If I as a teacher cannot encourage the student to make that connection with their music then they will never progress. I find that no matter what some students simply never will change their mind.

[oxy60]

It all depends on how one was raised. What went on in the home makes all the difference. How one's parents related to their work/duties sets the example.

We are the product of our parents. It's that simple.

If you were bribed/rewarded as a baby for certain behavior you will need those rewards as an adult. Sometimes that goes all wrong and as an adult, getting fairly paid for work won't be enough.

[lostinidlewonder]

It all depends on how one was raised. What went on in the home makes all the difference. How one's parents related to their work/duties sets the example.

We are the product of our parents. It's that simple.

Yes I think upbringing certainly commands a lot in this respect. I currently have one particular 5 year old student who can read all the words I write in his book that are meant for his parents to teach from. His parents are very much involved in his learning and how he spends his time but the child is also extremely keen to learn new things and master his skills. They are Chinese, I am half Chinese and from knowing many Chinese families of my own (and my students) I find that more Chinese kids are brought up with strict work ethic than Caucasian families.

I think we are a reflection of our parents to some respect, we all have to make our own decisions which makes all the difference. I have taught students who are no where near as hard working as their parents, but that is because the parents where brought up in severely strict upbringing and want more of a "fun" childhood for their children. I certainly know that some teenagers certainly can rebel and don't care about work or how they treat their parents/authority as a whole. The friends that they mix with can have a strong influence, peer pressure these days, "image" is becoming more and more important to our younger generation (not that it hasn't continually shaped many people throughout history). But with access and expectations (sex, body image, fashion etc) spewed out in media (magazines, movies, tv etc) these days, it is just more in your face and I have found has been the source that has disrupted many young adults I have taught who try to live up to falsified ideas as what it means to be a young adult.

[urlicht]

When I was teaching it seemed like I got an endless supply of unmotivated students whose parents pushed them into taking piano to "balance out their education". I initially started to try to motivate them with rewards, and more challenging pieces, always trying to find that angle that would spark their interest, but nothing ever seemed to get through to them. I think if the student isn't motivated to learn, there's little you can do as a teacher to change that. I just wish more parents would accept that as a fact of life and let their little ones move on to something else rather than try to push through it.

Have you had any successes turning an unmotivated student into a motivated one?

[oxy60]

Yes I think upbringing certainly commands a lot in this respect. I currently have one particular 5 year old student who can read all the words I write in his book that are meant for his...

Thank you for the kind words. I am not very familiar with Asian culture. However as far as Occidental culture is concerned I can say that the leaf doesn't fall far from the tree.

Motivating the unmotivated is almost impossible; especially in music. Anyone who can come up with a way to motivate them should get a big award.

I hang out with about 500 local musicians, many are long past retirement. About two or three times a week small groups of us get together to jam. We pay our own way and patronize the night clubs that give us a stage. We often play to packed houses.

Speaking with my friends not one started in music at the behest of their parents. All of us sought it out. My parents rented my first piano because they weren't sure I would continue. Like my friends I also rented other instruments to try.

Like all pursuits music must resonate first with the player.

[akthe47]

When I was teaching it seemed like I got an endless supply of unmotivated students whose parents pushed them into taking piano to "balance out their education". I initially started to try to motivate them with rewards, and more challenging pieces, always trying to find that angle that would spark their interest, but nothing ever seemed to get through to them. I think if the student isn't motivated to learn, there's little you can do as a teacher to change that. I just wish more parents would accept that as a fact of life and let their little ones move on to something else rather than try to push through it.

Have you had any successes turning an unmotivated student into a motivated one?

As a student in my child years who was unmotivated and uninspired, I would vote *against* giving up on those children and letting them move on to 'other things.'

Children are the last 'people' to know what they really want in life, as they've seen so little of it.  If my parents/teacher gave up on me when I wanted to quit, I would never have the gift to enjoy music like I do today.  You can sure bet I will make my kids learn music when they are young whether they want it or not.  I have yet to meet someone who says they regret learning an instrument, and more often than not, they have a newfound love for music much later in life.

And the number of people I have met who have regretted quitting an instrument (while their parents just let them), particularly piano, is in the high double digits.

[keypeg]

 I have yet to meet someone who says they regret learning an instrument, and more often than not, they have a newfound love for music much later in life.

I have met a number of people who regret having been forced into music lessons against their will, and some of them never touched the instrument again.  Different people have different experiences for different reasons.  It is not good to generalize and make blanket statements.  My own child stopped his instrument, then asked to start several years later and went on to university.  Should I then argue that everyone do what we did?  It worked for us because of the makeup of this particular child, circumstances, how we handled it and so forth.  The drawback was needing to scramble to reach a level to be able to compete for university placement.  The plus was that he was motivated which, if forced, would not have been there.

[akthe47]

I have met a number of people who regret having been forced into music lessons against their will, and some of them never touched the instrument again.  Different people have different experiences for different reasons.  It is not good to generalize and make blanket statements.  My own child stopped his instrument, then asked to start several years later and went on to university.  Should I then argue that everyone do what we did?  It worked for us because of the makeup of this particular child, circumstances, how we handled it and so forth.  The drawback was needing to scramble to reach a level to be able to compete for university placement.  The plus was that he was motivated which, if forced, would not have been there.

That is why I said "I vote."  

I suppose this thread is pointless, then, as there are too many experiences and too many circumstances.  Why even bother?  We should have the original poster write out the details of each student in particular that they want to attend to, starting from their childhood experiences.  Otherwise we should not offer any input.

[pianowolfi]

As a student in my child years who was unmotivated and uninspired, I would vote *against* giving up on those children and letting them move on to 'other things.'

Children are the last 'people' to know what they really want in life, as they've seen so little of it.  If my parents/teacher gave up on me when I wanted to quit, I would never have the gift to enjoy music like I do today.  You can sure bet I will make my kids learn music when they are young whether they want it or not.  I have yet to meet someone who says they regret learning an instrument, and more often than not, they have a newfound love for music much later in life.

And the number of people I have met who have regretted quitting an instrument (while their parents just let them), particularly piano, is in the high double digits.

I have to second this to a significant degree. But if you look deeper, children often know exactly what they want, particularly when it comes to music.

Problem number one: we don't listen to them and often don't take them seriously enough, for instance when they articulate repeatedly what instrument they'd like to play.
Problem number two: Children can't organize themselves. They live in the moment. They have no real concept of time. They can't work and practice within a regular schedule out of their own.  If they have no guidance in their endeavours, especially when it comes to long term goals and processes like learning an instrument, many of them won't persevere.
But f you engage the parents into your music education concept and if they can manage to get their children into a regular, rhythmical practice/playing-schedule most of them will flourish, as long as you respect their specific learning tempo and capacity.

[urlicht]

As a student in my child years who was unmotivated and uninspired, I would vote *against* giving up on those children and letting them move on to 'other things.'

Children are the last 'people' to know what they really want in life, as they've seen so little of it.  If my parents/teacher gave up on me when I wanted to quit, I would never have the gift to enjoy music like I do today.  You can sure bet I will make my kids learn music when they are young whether they want it or not.  I have yet to meet someone who says they regret learning an instrument, and more often than not, they have a newfound love for music much later in life.

And the number of people I have met who have regretted quitting an instrument (while their parents just let them), particularly piano, is in the high double digits.

Yes, of course attitudes change. I'm not advocating giving up on kids. What I don't get is parents who force their children into taking lessons. It's really not pleasant for anyone involved. I'm just saying that we should listen to our kids and let them have a little bit of power over their own lives.

[akthe47]

Yes, of course attitudes change. I'm not advocating giving up on kids. What I don't get is parents who force their children into taking lessons. It's really not pleasant for anyone involved. I'm just saying that we should listen to our kids and let them have a little bit of power over their own lives.

Most kids, myself involved, would have rather gone out and played outside rather than sit inside and play the piano.  Practicing piano was a sacrifice, and that's something that most kids can't perceive as worthy (esp. in light of them not perceiving time like adults do). 

I do think we should still give our ears to our kids, but I don't know if doing what they want is the best approach.  That's just my opinion, though-- we can agree to disagree.

[oxy60]

Most kids, myself involved, would have rather gone out and played outside rather than sit inside and play the piano.  Practicing piano was a sacrifice, and that's something that most kids can't perceive as worthy (esp. in light of them not perceiving time like adults do). 

I do think we should still give our ears to our kids, but I don't know if doing what they want is the best approach.  That's just my opinion, though-- we can agree to disagree.

I was exactly the opposite. My parents would push me to go outside and play.

Still the issue remains. There must be something in the activity that resonates with the person, young or old. Just pleasing parents or teachers won't be enough.

[akthe47]

I was exactly the opposite. My parents would push me to go outside and play.

Still the issue remains. There must be something in the activity that resonates with the person, young or old. Just pleasing parents or teachers won't be enough.

I did just please parents and teachers, and now I appreciate it beyond imagination.  My younger-self would not have known I would have enjoyed piano so much when I was older, and if it were up to me back then, I would have quit.  Thankfully my parents knew better.

Kids lack discipline, time management, and emotional capacity to appreciate music, and so that is why I would think parents would be the better judge in most cases.  But perhaps if kids were destined to do what their parents wanted them to do, the world would be missing out on some of the greatest talents, ever, across all disciplines.

[oxy60]

I did just please parents and teachers, and now I appreciate it beyond imagination.  My younger-self would not have known I would have enjoyed piano so much when I was older, and if it were up to me back then, I would have quit.  Thankfully my parents knew better.

Kids lack discipline, time management, and emotional capacity to appreciate music, and so that is why I would think parents would be the better judge in most cases.  But perhaps if kids were destined to do what their parents wanted them to do, the world would be missing out on some of the greatest talents, ever, across all disciplines.

You see there was a resonance, even though you didn't perceive it at the time. Now you are older and more reflective but also more sensitive to what pleases you. Yes kids are kids but now when you look back you will see there was more to you than you thought at the time.

Sometimes we need to be bold with kids. Plug a keyboard into a 1000 watt amp and have the kid play a few notes... If that doesn't resonate nothing will.

[keypeg]

That is why I said "I vote."  

I suppose this thread is pointless, then, as there are too many experiences and too many circumstances.  Why even bother?  We should have the original poster write out the details of each student in particular that they want to attend to, starting from their childhood experiences.  Otherwise we should not offer any input.

Your statement after "I vote." seemed very definite as if there was only one possibility - i.e. "Children are the last people...." etc.  Maybe I misunderstood.  I am past the stage of planning what I might do with my children - they are now adults.   At the time that I made my parenting choices, I could only hope that they were not wrong choices.  Even now that I've seen it worked, I would still not make absolutes about what works and what the nature of people at any age is.  Some people regret not having been forced to stay in lessons.  Others resent having been forced, and some of those quit for good as soon as they could.  Others wish they had had the opportunity of lessons.  It's only the definiteness of the statement that I objected to.  There is no one answer.

[lmcwilliam]

There maybe no one answer, but music appreciation and student teacher relationship must be a good key to helping a variety of students with a mixture of desires and needs. If a student is with you for 6 months or 10 years, if they walk away having shared a good experience with you surely they will carry that and hopefully may come back to it in later life or even simply continue to appreciate music in all its shapes and forms. 
Honesty with the student as to what they can get out of music and how it is directly linked to 'work habits' is important but simple teacher enthusiasm goes a long way into motivating an individual student. (Hard at times I know!) but if you can pull that excitement and enthusiasm from somewhere is is often infectious and will hopefully last for some of the week in the home environment (along with the stickers and rewards and goal setting)  Breaking down work habits into very simple explicit goals for younger children is important as it is more the work ethic and know how we are teaching not just the music itself.  If these goals are very short and achievable success reinforces success and you can build from there. 
When students are getting nowhere I break the work down further and further into what I sometimes feel are ridiculously simple tasks surprisingly these very explicit instructions of time/ repetition and even daily routine and time management often work best at developing good work habits.  Is is often the extra curricula teaching that is more important.  We often find ourselves teaching the how to not simply the outcome

[keypeg]

There maybe no one answer, but music appreciation and student teacher relationship must be a good key to helping a variety of students with a mixture of desires and needs. If a student is with you for 6 months or 10 years, if they walk away having shared a good experience with you surely they will carry that and hopefully may come back to it in later life or even simply continue to appreciate music in all its shapes and forms. 
Honesty with the student as to what they can get out of music and how it is directly linked to 'work habits' is important but simple teacher enthusiasm goes a long way into motivating an individual student. (Hard at times I know!) but if you can pull that excitement and enthusiasm from somewhere is is often infectious and will hopefully last for some of the week in the home environment (along with the stickers and rewards and goal setting)  Breaking down work habits into very simple explicit goals for younger children is important as it is more the work ethic and know how we are teaching not just the music itself.  If these goals are very short and achievable success reinforces success and you can build from there. 
When students are getting nowhere I break the work down further and further into what I sometimes feel are ridiculously simple tasks surprisingly these very explicit instructions of time/ repetition and even daily routine and time management often work best at developing good work habits.  Is is often the extra curricula teaching that is more important.  We often find ourselves teaching the how to not simply the outcome

I like this combination.  On one hand you show enthusiasm which is infectious.  On the other hand you make it possible for your students to achieve something by breaking it down into something they can manage.  Enthusiasm without the ability to reach something leads to frustration, so both these things are needed.  Might I suggest that even older students who are beginning need this simplicity.  While we have the capability of understanding abstract concepts and can catch on much more quickly than a small child, we still have to reach the same things over time.  Some of it is physical coordination, and some of it is opening the ear over time.  That can't be rushed, methinks.