Well Tempered Klavier

[Spatula]

Umm..this topic was probably beaten to death with a sledgehammer, but lets kick more outta it.

I'm thinking of maybe doing some of these stuff by Bach since I've not played something by him in quite a while.  Well whadday know?  Chopin even praises them.
So..do they really help with your technique or approach on the piano?  Or are they just another "hanon" excercise?  

Well at least these sound more interesting than the straight hanon, but I wanna get a good return for the effort exerted.  Instead of doing this, I could be slaying away at Chopin's sonata or whatever, but if this things help even with learning pieces faster or whatever...then I'm game, I didn't say gay, I said G-A-M-E.

[teresa_b]

Good grief,  How can you compare the WTC to Hanon???  Hanon is just exercises, but Bach is sublime!  I think you will get far more than technique from WTC, although you get great practice with independent hand work and coordination.  

Try the G major (I think that's no 15) in Book I.  I love that one--it just sparkles, and is a pleasure to play--In NO way just an exercise!

Teresa

[Daevren]

Hanon  

Hahaha...

I read somewhere that Bach wrote these pieces for his own entertainment because no one was interested in that kind of music, they all wanted operas.

I also read he wrote them as both composing exersizes and as pieces to test his new keyboard instrument with)(Clavichord?).

Somewhere else I read Bach really considered pedagogical purposes when composing these works.

[janice]

I'm positive that Spatula didn't literally mean "Hanon-type exercises--he knows better, than to praise Hanon here, lest he be ripped to shreds!!!  Many people here HATE Hanon (personally, I don't have a real problem with him!).  I think that he means to ask if Bach WTC is good for technique-building reasons, rather than "learning" the piece like if he were to play it in a recital.  Am I right, Spatula?  I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth!!

[Spatula]

no no love,

I'm just saying if I should just invest my time to learning this "suped-up" hanons (dare I say)... oh I sense the flak's gonna come.

If they make me "super spatula" then why not?  

[cziffra777]

no no love,

I'm just saying if I should just invest my time to learning this "suped-up" hanons (dare I say)

If that is how you view Bach's music, I would have to say no. You would be doing a disservice to Bach. The WTC is great music. That should be your primary reason for working on it. You can acquire a lot of technique by playing this music, but that shouldn't be the reason you learn it.

[vis]

too many people look at bach and WTK as technique exercizes. They won't train your fingers to run any faster - play some etudes or exercizes for that. However, what they will do is teach you to play good polyphony, phrasing, and voice-leading. After playing a few I'm sure you'll be able to understand music better.

[super_ardua]

They develop contrapunctual thinking.

[dlu]

I personally like the Art of the Fugue. Hey but what is my opinion worth anyway (not a sarcastic statement).

[Rach3]

TOO many people think WTC is a technical excercize? I've never heard this before. Of course, one is too many...

I think the main benefits of fugues like these are, as said, contrapuntal thinking, linking the concepts of counterpoint and harmony, and perhaps in general a subtler understanding of music. WTC is truly Bach at his most sublime.

Daevren - my counterpoint professor at university would also like to add that WTC is Bach's attempt to popularize the (then revolutionary) concept of equal temperement (''well-tempered", "Wohltemperierte") by writing a unique prelude and fugue in every possible key, including the exotic ones like F# which could not musically exist in older tuning systems. Of course, his examples of keyboard-tuning were so persuasive that they remain among the most absorbing works now three hundred years later, and ~35 Hz higher.

[Daevren]

How could I forget that?

Ooh wel...

[cziffra777]

Daevren - my counterpoint professor at university would also like to add that WTC is Bach's attempt to popularize the (then revolutionary) concept of equal temperement (''well-tempered", "Wohltemperierte") by writing a unique prelude and fugue in every possible key, including the exotic ones like F# which could not musically exist in older tuning systems.

That should be well temperament. Equal temperament wasn't used until long after Bach's time.

[Rach3]

I stand corrected.

[Spatula]

Actually I had a look at the Hanon book today and bothered to look over the first 20 or so exercises..  they actually seem very beneficial and PRACTICAL to pieces like number 51 and so on.  I wouldn't stop doing them if some other feller says they're useless.

I've found that

"Technique can replace Hanon, but Hanon cannot replace technique"

Meaning the foundations of music can be found in technique, not Hanon.  Hanon is merely just to give the pianist greater finger independence and ability for more expressive pieces, its the cherry on top of the technique.

[Daevren]

Check this site: https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/wtc.html

[pianodude90]

I think WTC is a really good way to learn the fuge and learn to play voicing in the right way, but it's far away from exercisepieces. Tha fast parts in WTC is not very technical difficult, even if they sound difficult.

[indutrial]

The WTC pieces are best studied from a compositional/theoretical standpoint. I've never met anyone who thought that they were essential for technical development. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to learn some of the pieces though. The famous composition teacher Nadia Boulanger actually memorized the ins and outs of the entire first book in one year by disciplining herself to study one prelude or fugue each week until it was mastered. I don't quite know how worthwhile something like that would be, but considering her overall genius, it couldn't have hurt in any way.

[pianochick93]

I think WTC is a really good way to learn the fuge and learn to play voicing in the right way, but it's far away from exercisepieces. Tha fast parts in WTC is not very technical difficult, even if they sound difficult.

Check the date before you post please. This thread is 4 years old.

[jabbz]

Book 1 was written at a time when Bach had no access to an instrument. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

[Petter]

I think WTC is a really good way to learn the fuge and learn to play voicing in the right way, but it's far away from exercisepieces. Tha fast parts in WTC is not very technical difficult, even if they sound difficult.

resurrected from 2004, interesting