Concerto Repertoire

[jy_]

I am required to play a concerto for my final year recital, and this will be the first concerto that i am learning, any suggestions on what to play?

i am thinking of playing the Liszt Totentanz, as it seems quite comfortable for the hands.

How difficult is Totentanz compared to other standard Concerto repertoire like those of Mozart, Grieg, Schumann etc?

[werq34ac]

Mozart has a difficulty of its own. Schumann is easy on the fingers but difficult musically. Grieg seems to be more of a technical challenge than a musical challenge. Liszt Totentanz is probably significantly more difficult than the Grieg. Plus since it's your first concerto, you probably shouldn't start too big. A lot of people start with Mozart or Beethoven, but if you want to go Romantic, assuming the piece isn't a challenge to you, then I would go with maybe Grieg or Schumann.

[birba]

Schumann easy on the fingers?!  Sorry, I could never master the third movement of the Schumann.  On the other hand, I think the grieg is a good choice for an initiation into the romantic concerto repertoire.

[jy_]

I just tried both Totentanz and the Grieg, and somehow i feel that Totentanz seems easier to pull off - apart from the cadenzas and the later part of the fugue variation, i feel that most of the piece is quite comfortable for the hands

[49410enrique]

 i must be woefully unprepared or just have bad 'piano self esteem' i think pretty much all the 'romantic' large scale piano + orchestra works are wicked hard! i mean i've yet to pony up to any of them for fear of 'biting off more than i can chew' , usually you don't realize it until perhaps weeks/months in then what?

enough about my pitty party/jealousy/insecurity, we're all at various stages in our piano development so i can't complain, i just need to stay motivated to practice and keep growing,

still it makes me think that maybe i'm doing something wrong if at this point i still don't have the 'cojones' to step to one of those monsters (i love the grieg btw, before i expanded my horizons beyong the standard, it was by far my favorite concerto, i still find myself enjoying recordings of it i hadn't yet come across).

i guess my main contribution (if i will sound like a  broken record or parrot with repitition) is pick the one you just like better, again the work you're most passionate about is the one you will approach with the most discipline, you'll work hardest at it, and as developing musicians, i 've yet to see real benefit to picking 'the easiest work' when choosing repertoire, it's seldom even enters into the equation on my end when picking pieces to work up, i feel that once you have a resonable list in terms of your ability (with teacher guidance) you should probably pick the one that is most difficult for you, you'll learn more from it. i mean we practice what we suck at right? we don't neccessarily benefit for working on what we're already pretty good at correct?

PS what kind of senior recital? i've only seen two student recitals ever where a work for piano plus orchestra (with a piano ii reduction) was ever presented in the program, usually it's reserved for solo piano stuff only (and those were graduate/master's level programs).  fyi there's a pretty good alkan transcription of the mozart d minor for solo piano, might be worth exploring....

okay not great video (the work is great the quality of the recording could be much better) but there aren't exactly a lot of this floating around the interwebs...

[werq34ac]

What I mean about the Schumann is that many younger pianists (age 13, 14) play the piece before they are musically capable.

[thalbergmad]

The reason many 13/14 year old's play it is because the blasted thing requires zero musicianship.

Thal

[nikolasideris]

The reason many 13/14 year old's play it is because the blasted thing requires zero musicianship.

LOL... I bet that when you were born it was raining negativity, right?  

jy_: Have you played with others AT ALL? I mean the concerto is not like playing a solo piano work, to just get on in your own pace and style: You need to adjust to what the orchestra (2nd piano) is playing.

If not, I think that perhaps the more romantic works might pose some slight issues, with the rubato, ritenuto, etc... In a more conservative sense some early Beethoven (ok... perhaps the 3rd as well, if you fancy it enough) and Mozart would be ok, but I'd be wary to go for a big romantic concerto like the Grieg one...

[thalbergmad]

You think the Grieg is a big romantic concerto??

I have heard some funny things in my time, but that is one of the best.

Thal

[teccomin]

The musicality of Schumann concerto just flows naturally, anyone who listens to classical music alot can pull it off, musically. But one shouldn't be comparing a single movement concerto like the Totentanz with full concertos of Schumann, Grieg and Mozart. I don't care if its Liszt or not, its still going to be easier to learn and perform, simply because its only 15 minutes.

Does it have to be romantic? Beethoven 1 and 2 are pretty accessible. Theres also Saint-Saens. But if you are ambitious enough, you can also go for something more challenging, Chopin perhaps?

[49410enrique]

maybe a modern neo classical abridged work, the francaix concertino is one of my favorites in that category of smaller works for piano and orchestra (that still shoot for a sonata form/concerto form style).
total for all 'movements' is only about 8 minutes

\
Jean Françaix (1912-1997): Concertino pour piano et orchestre (1932).


Claude Françaix, pianoforte
London Symphony Orchestra diretta da Antal Dorati.

[jy_]

the francaix is nice! i'll just need to try and find the score for it and have a go at it

just curious, what is the difficulty of totentanz compared with certain TEs or paganini etudes? I played through certain TEs (horribly of course) and la campanella, and that seems to have made learning totentanz easier in certain areas - such as the interlocking octaves and repeated notes

does anyone have any suggestion how to co-ordinate the LH and RH in the repeated-notes fugato section (Not the part where both hands play semis with RH melody - immediately before that)? Quite often my hands dont land together - especially in the parts where the LH has semiquaver movement.

[49410enrique]

the francaix is nice! i'll just need to try and find the score for it and have a go at it

it can be hard to find, i do not know if it is currently in print, i got mine by accident, it was  at the bottom of a misc scores box under a shelf at a used book store i frequent, new old stock so i got lucky i didn't know the work existed until i bought it.

amazon.com has three sellers with copies up for grabs as of this posting, might want to snatch it up before you decide to actually go at it and then can't get the score. it is unvailable for download to the best of my knowledge (modern work).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002RRQCEM/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

[revanyoda777]

The reason many 13/14 year old's play it is because the blasted thing requires zero musicianship.

Thal

True

[bachbrahmsschubert]

The Grieg Concerto is not as difficult as it looks, sounds, nor people think it is. It is judged by individuals who look through the music for 10 minutes then base assumptions on that experience. Like every concerto, it has its unique and tricky moments. It's also relatively simple to collaborate with the orchestra compared to other significant concertos of the era. I would consider it "difficult" but nowhere near its comparable works.

Mozart is extremely difficult because it requires perfection; however, the difficult moments in Mozart concertos cannot be compared to larger 19th century works.

If you do want a large 19th century work, go for Totentanz if you want. It's rather monstrous, but hey... You only live once. Brahms' 2nd, Medtner's (early 20th century) 2nd, Tchaikovsky's 2 or 3 (1 is overdone), and Rach 3 all fall in the same category.

I wouldn't even consider Schumann at this point unless it's your favorite work.

There are SO MANY piano concertos, Busoni's being my favorite, just pick your favorite and, if you're seriously considering Totentanz, don't worry about difficulty.

My 53 cents.

[werq34ac]

The reason many 13/14 year old's play it is because the blasted thing requires zero musicianship.

Thal

Weren't you the one who hated Schumann? If you think it requires zero musicianship, then whatever, but still 13/14 year olds (all the way up to 18 year olds and beyond) botch it up even with near perfect technique.

[franz_]

You think the Grieg is a big romantic concerto??

I have heard some funny things in my time, but that is one of the best.

Thal

So what is it than? It was Rachmaninovs favorite concerto.
I wouldn't put it next to Rach 3 or Tchaikovsky, but it defenately is a beautiful romantic concert, no?

[jy_]

it can be hard to find, i do not know if it is currently in print, i got mine by accident, it was  at the bottom of a misc scores box under a shelf at a used book store i frequent, new old stock so i got lucky i didn't know the work existed until i bought it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002RRQCEM/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

my teacher says that it's a bit small, but i can have a look at it since its not too difficult, apparently the library seems to have a copy of it, its for 11 instruments right?

So what is it than? It was Rachmaninovs favorite concerto.
I wouldn't put it next to Rach 3 or Tchaikovsky, but it defenately is a beautiful romantic concert, no?

The grieg is nice, but everyone's playing it... so there's really no point in choosing it... I chose totentanz because it's popular, but not something that would come to mind when people mention 'concerto', and it falls quite comfortably under the hands too (Grieg feels quite awkward in certain areas)

[thalbergmad]

So what is it than?

My objection was to the use of the word "big". No doubt it is a romantic concerto, but anyone who thinks it is "big", perhaps needs to expand their listening.

Busoni is "big", Bortkiewicz is "big" and so is Urspruch, Nikisch, Melcer, Schytte, Zelenski, Willan, da Motta, Tobias and God knows how many others. In comparison, Grieg is small fry.

Thal

[werq34ac]

My objection was to the use of the word "big". No doubt it is a romantic concerto, but anyone who thinks it is "big", perhaps needs to expand their listening.

Busoni is "big", Bortkiewicz is "big" and so is Urspruch, Nikisch, Melcer, Schytte, Zelenski, Willan, da Motta, Tobias and God knows how many others. In comparison, Grieg is small fry.

Thal

Brahms?

Would Chopin count as big?

[thalbergmad]

Brahms?

Never heard of him

[ahinton]

Never heard of him

Really? And with all your vast reservoir of knowledge? Might it be because he was what you'd term a "plinky" composer?

Best,

Alistair

[jy_]

Thanks for everyone's input! I eventually decided on the Totentanz and did a fairly good job of it. Very pleased and thoroughly enjoyed learning it!